Five-year-old April Jones kidnapped in Machynlleth, Mid-Wales

[UrbaneFox]

Very common to hoard food. Or to make big meals and watch it go cold. The control is the high.

Also watching cooking shows, looking at pictures, generally obsessing totally about it.

Some chefs and food stylists (people who polish tomatoes and choose the perfect strawberry for photo shoots) have eating disorders.

I remember a few very thin waitresses I encountered in Italy, and recently two very thin waitresses working in a restaurant on Parkway who seemed to stare at me with utter disgust as I ate.

Maybe the Italy thing was that I was eating alone. My table manners are not particularly piggish so I wondered if waitressing appeals to people who have eating disorders. I am not eating, you are, I am giving you all the fat. I can't remember too much about that.

Try: Em Farrell on Amazon.

* I just did. It is out of print, but I'm sure it will be back.

 

[purenarcotic]

Some chefs and food stylists (people who polish tomatoes and choose the perfect strawberry for photo shoots) have eating disorders.

I remember a few very thin waitresses I encountered in Italy, and recently two very thin waitresses working in a restaurant on Parkway who seemed to stare at me with utter disgust as I ate.

Maybe the Italy thing was that I was eating alone. My table manners are not particularly piggish so I wondered if waitressing appeals to people who have eating disorders. I am not eating, you are, I am giving you all the fat. I can't remember too much about that.

Try: Em Farrell on Amazon.

* I just did. It is out of print, but I'm sure it will be back.

Well I don't think it's a career that appeals to those with eating disorders per se but yes, some people with EDs will view those who eat adequately with disgust; it's all tied into the high of not eating and how good it makes you feel to know that you're getting thinner while others get fat. There's also often feelings of jealousy too, that they perceive you as eating without a care.

It's very complex.

 

[Red Cat]

Em Farrel's book is available online:

http://www.psychoanalysis-and-therapy.com/human_nature/farrell/acknow.html

 

[kebabking]

Don't ever think of me as your friend.

i don't think thats a problem you're going to be burdened with, do you?

 

[existentialist]

i don't think thats a problem you're going to be burdened with, do you?

Oh, the horror!

Still, it's quite flattering to think he even considered the possibility that I might. Poor chap, if he only knew the kind of company I prefer to keep...

 

[brogdale]

Convicted murderer and rapist Juvinal Ferreira, 24, attacked Bridger with a razor blade at the top security Wakefield Prison in July 2012."He (Ferreira) said that Bridger's crime had been discussed, and he claimed people had suggested that if Bridger was attacked, rather than say befriended, Bridger would then be more likely to reveal where April Jones's body was."
The premeditated attack happened three days after Bridger was allowed to associate with other prisoners.

Ferreira fashioned a weapon out of a prison-issue razor with extra blades attached to the handle.

Mr Sharp said: "The defendant saw him and walked directly up to him with the blade held between thumb and forefinger.

"He then slashed him down the face, causing a deep wound extending from temple to chin.

"He paused for a moment and looked Bridger directly in the eyes, in Bridger's own words 'as if to admire his work or show me who it was'."

He required more than 30 stitches to the face wound, which required surgery under general anaesthetic and will be scarred for life.

Bridger also suffered a cut to his arm as he tried to defend himself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ort-to-learn-where-April-Joness-body-was.html

 

[dylanredefined]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ort-to-learn-where-April-Joness-body-was.html

Oh dear how sad never mind.

 

[weltweit]

Indeed, never mind.

Wonder what his twisted reasoning is for not revealing where her body is, he has been convicted after all.

 

[butchersapron]

Because that's his only bargaining power.

 

[weltweit]

Because that's his only bargaining power.

But bargaining for what?

 

[butchersapron]

But bargaining for what?

I don't know. Something that he wants but is not currently allowed?

 

[Serotonin]

I don't know. Something that he wants but is not currently allowed?

Probably thinks it keeps him relevant and people interested, as opposed to rotting in prison. If the press reports were accurate he was portrayed as a total fantasist and narcissist.

 

[trashpony]

It's power, not necessarily about bargaining. The whole crime is about power.

Although the bone fragments they found could mean that there isn't anything much left of April to bury

 

[equationgirl]

I don't know. Something that he wants but is not currently allowed?

Brady does similar from time to time, does he not?

 

[equationgirl]

It's power, not necessarily about bargaining. The whole crime is about power.

Although the bone fragments they found could mean that there isn't anything much left of April to bury

Liked for agreement, obviously.

 

[spanglechick]

Brady does similar from time to time, does he not?

quite. and with brady it's clearly deliberate (or at least, imo). The whole character of Brady's crimes was about torturing people - holding all the power. Afaic he's got off on torturing those still desperate to bury their child, and he's been getting off on it for half a century now.

Perhaps i'm only recently coming to a conclusion that was evident to everyone else for ages but...

I think that when we hear of these crimes, we try to make sense of the horror if we can. make some empathetic leaps... so *if* i was a paedophile and *if* i acted on that and *if* it then went somehow wrong and i ended up killing the child (because the defence story plants that 'accidental death' seed in our mind)... that makes me bad and in need of punishment, but surely i'd also feel remorse and want to make things better for the families.

but i think that's where we go wrong. the whole point is that killing kids doesn't end up being something that even remotely comes close to happening to us... BECAUSE we are not like these men and women. People who get to that point are people who enjoy hurting people. who like making people suffer - it's intrinsic to their personalities because if it wasn't, they would have never have got close to committing one of these extreme crimes.

 

[Frances Lengel]

quite. and with brady it's clearly deliberate (or at least, imo). The whole character of Brady's crimes was about torturing people - holding all the power. Afaic he's got off on torturing those still desperate to bury their child, and he's been getting off on it for half a century now.

Perhaps i'm only recently coming to a conclusion that was evident to everyone else for ages but...

I think that when we hear of these crimes, we try to make sense of the horror if we can. make some empathetic leaps... so *if* i was a paedophile and *if* i acted on that and *if* it then went somehow wrong and i ended up killing the child (because the defence story plants that 'accidental death' seed in our mind)... that makes me bad and in need of punishment, but surely i'd also feel remorse and want to make things better for the families.

but i think that's where we go wrong. the whole point is that killing kids doesn't end up being something that even remotely comes close to happening to us... BECAUSE we are not like these men and women. People who get to that point are people who enjoy hurting people. who like making people suffer - it's intrinsic to their personalities because if it wasn't, they would have never have got close to committing one of these extreme crimes.

Maybe but, is that not saying though that "evil" is an external thing that affects neither you nor I? I'm not trying to normalise an awful crime like this one, but that's kind of how you're coming over - "Othering" these offenders. AFAIC they are us - And they walk among us, they aren't a seperate species.

 

[spanglechick]

Maybe but, is that not saying though that "evil" is an external thing that affects neither you nor I? I'm not trying to normalise an awful crime like this one, but that's kind of how you're coming over - "Othering" these offenders. AFAIC they are us - And they walk among us, they aren't a seperate species.

not a separate species. i don't subscribe to the idea of 'monsters'... but just as you can have people who completely believe in punishing poor people and giving tax breaks to the rich at their expense... which just leaves me absolutely baffled and i genuinely can't get my head round how they can lack even basic compassion or sense of egalitarianism. but they're the same pecies, and not necessarily stupid - my sister thinks like that and we grew up in the same house with the same values, ffs... well, what i'm saying is there are a (hopefully) smaller number of people who genuinely get pleasure from knowing they've hurt someone else and caused pain. and because that's not how most people's minds work, we try to make what they have done 'fit' our own personalities... which leads us to be confused when they don't do the decent thing and say where the bodies are.

 

[existentialist]

But bargaining for what?

Power? Significance? Who knows?

It doesn't have to be logical except in his own mind.

 

[Red Cat]

Maybe but, is that not saying though that "evil" is an external thing that affects neither you nor I? I'm not trying to normalise an awful crime like this one, but that's kind of how you're coming over - "Othering" these offenders. AFAIC they are us - And they walk among us, they aren't a seperate species.

I think we miss something if we don't accept that the extent of some people's cruelty and sadism makes them unlike most people. I think this is one of the reasons why children's services miss serious abuse when faced with the evidence because it's easier to believe the parents excuses than accept that someone can be so cruel.

I think you're right that we have to acknowledge our own capacity for cruelty but there's a big difference between ordinary cruelty tempered by our capacity to love and the sadism of a person who deliberately kills a child. We're not doing anyone any favours by pretending that it's not so dissimilar.

 

[frogwoman]

quite. and with brady it's clearly deliberate (or at least, imo). The whole character of Brady's crimes was about torturing people - holding all the power. Afaic he's got off on torturing those still desperate to bury their child, and he's been getting off on it for half a century now.

Perhaps i'm only recently coming to a conclusion that was evident to everyone else for ages but...

I think that when we hear of these crimes, we try to make sense of the horror if we can. make some empathetic leaps... so *if* i was a paedophile and *if* i acted on that and *if* it then went somehow wrong and i ended up killing the child (because the defence story plants that 'accidental death' seed in our mind)... that makes me bad and in need of punishment, but surely i'd also feel remorse and want to make things better for the families.

but i think that's where we go wrong. the whole point is that killing kids doesn't end up being something that even remotely comes close to happening to us... BECAUSE we are not like these men and women. People who get to that point are people who enjoy hurting people. who like making people suffer - it's intrinsic to their personalities because if it wasn't, they would have never have got close to committing one of these extreme crimes.

yep

 

[existentialist]

I think we miss something if we don't accept that the extent of some people's cruelty and sadism makes them unlike most people. I think this is one of the reasons why children's services miss serious abuse when faced with the evidence because it's easier to believe the parents excuses than accept that someone can be so cruel.

True.

I think you're right that we have to acknowledge our own capacity for cruelty but there's a big difference between ordinary cruelty tempered by our capacity to love and the sadism of a person who deliberately kills a child. We're not doing anyone any favours by pretending that it's not so dissimilar.

Also true, but what is absolutely critical is that we guard against any tendency to distance ourselves from these people. Once we label them as "not human", or similar, we lose the ability to take any responsibility for what they get up to, and that's how they get away with things - it makes it easier for us to miss their abuses.

 

[co-op]

Also true, but what is absolutely critical is that we guard against any tendency to distance ourselves from these people. Once we label them as "not human", or similar, we lose the ability to take any responsibility for what they get up to, and that's how they get away with things - it makes it easier for us to miss their abuses.

Not sure that I'd agree with this, there's reams of evidence from history of how fairly basic environmental stimuli can turn 'ordinary' people into 'monsters' - the 20th Century is littered with examples - so is the 21st. This guy who's just knifed Bridger - he's a fucking murder and rapist who has attacked a beleagured imprisoned individual yet his actions will be lauded by all sorts of people - they already have been on here - as somehow admirable.

 

[existentialist]

Not sure that I'd agree with this, there's reams of evidence from history of how fairly basic environmental stimuli can turn 'ordinary' people into 'monsters' - the 20th Century is littered with examples - so is the 21st. This guy who's just knifed Bridger - he's a fucking murder and rapist who has attacked a beleagured imprisoned individual yet his actions will be lauded by all sorts of people - they already have been on here - as somehow admirable.

Sure. But it doesn't help us to make it too easy to distance ourselves from them. That's a natural tendency we have, but it's not helpful: we tend to disown them, then stop taking responsibility for what they do. Which is, as someone else already pointed out, how we then miss them and the clues they leave for so long.

 

[co-op]

Sure. But it doesn't help us to make it too easy to distance ourselves from them. That's a natural tendency we have, but it's not helpful: we tend to disown them, then stop taking responsibility for what they do. Which is, as someone else already pointed out, how we then miss them and the clues they leave for so long.

Apologies my answer was badly written - I agree with this, I disagree with the "true" at the beginning. I meant to quote the other persons post but forgot. The monsters/normal dichotomy is not between people but between behaviours imo.

 

[Red Cat]

True.

Also true, but what is absolutely critical is that we guard against any tendency to distance ourselves from these people. Once we label them as "not human", or similar, we lose the ability to take any responsibility for what they get up to, and that's how they get away with things - it makes it easier for us to miss their abuses.

I'm not suggesting distancing ourselves from extreme cruelty; I'm suggesting looking it in the eye.

 

[Red Cat]

Apologies my answer was badly written - I agree with this, I disagree with the "true" at the beginning. I meant to quote the other persons post but forgot. The monsters/normal dichotomy is not between people but between behaviours imo.

If you're talking about me, I didn't imply anything about monsters.

However, how do you separate a person from his/her actions?

 

[weltweit]

April Jones murder: Killer's house demolished in Wales
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30080254

A demolition team has begun tearing down a cottage dubbed the "house of evil", where Mark Bridger is believed to have murdered five-year-old April Jones.

Work to raze the house in Ceinws, Powys, was witnessed by April's parents, Coral and Paul Jones, who wanted the building flattened.

 

[UrbaneFox]

April Jones murder: Killer's house demolished in Wales
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30080254

a cottage dubbed the "house of evil"

When will this kind of talk end?

 

[Pickman's model]

a cottage dubbed the "house of evil"

When will this kind of talk end?

i'm waiting for the bungalow of evil