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Five-year-old April Jones kidnapped in Machynlleth, Mid-Wales

Doesn't 'hate crime' imply there was an intent to harm that specific person because of their disability/gender/orientation/ethnicity/whatever? Making a joke about a girl who someone else allegedly abducted and killed isn't an intent to harm her himself, nor is it inciting anyone else to harm her. I'll admit I don't know very much about the specific laws involved, though.
 
Did anyone read the 'hypothetically' in my post? It was a suggestion as to why this chap MIGHT have gotten a harsher sentence, not as an actual reason why he did.

And I have no idea what this means:
<snip>
Turning this through 180degrees why didn't you Jan Moirs Stephen Gately comments get done this way?

Hope the post Leveson review covers shit like this
I don't remember making any comments about Stephen Gately or Jan Moirs :confused:
 
K
Did anyone read the 'hypothetically' in my post? It was a suggestion as to why this chap MIGHT have gotten a harsher sentence, not as an actual reason why he did.

And I have no idea what this means:

I don't remember making any comments about Stephen Gately or Jan Moirs :confused:
You didn't, but I made the link. Can remember the Jan Moirs thing mushrooming out of here all the way til Dave Gorman suggested written media come under Ofcom. Then it was all freedom of speech and the man in the pub. Well the man in the pub doing Facebook on his phone appears to come under OFCOM....why do newspapers consider their online publications as legally distinct from other online sites?
 
I don't think anyone's having a go at you, equationgirl. You brought up a point (hypothetically) and people are just exploring what that means, or could mean.
 
You didn't, but I made the link. Can remember the Jan Moirs thing mushrooming out of here all the way til Dave Gorman suggested written media come under Ofcom. Then it was all freedom of speech and the man in the pub. Well the man in the pub doing Facebook on his phone appears to come under OFCOM....
Sorry, the way your post was written it sounded as if you were aiming it at comments I had previously written (which I hadn't).

Freedom of speech is vital. But people (those generally not on urban, it seems) need to realise that freedom of speech means hearing things and seeing things you might not like or agree with.

At the moment it seems like we're heading down a path to state-sanctioned opinions. That's not good.
 
I don't think anyone's having a go at you, equationgirl. You brought up a point (hypothetically) and people are just exploring what that means, or could mean.
Yes, sorry, might be a smidge touchy today, I'm in a lot of pain and on a lot of pain meds, therefore my fuse is quite short and I'm easily confused. I'm sorry.
 
Sorry, the way your post was written it sounded as if you were aiming it at comments I had previously written (which I hadn't).

Freedom of speech is vital. But people (those generally not on urban, it seems) need to realise that freedom of speech means hearing things and seeing things you might not like or agree with.

At the moment it seems like we're heading down a path to state-sanctioned opinions. That's not good.
No it sounds like we are already there whilst everybody looks at the Leveson shadow theatre
 
Sorry, the way your post was written it sounded as if you were aiming it at comments I had previously written (which I hadn't).

Freedom of speech is vital. But people (those generally not on urban, it seems) need to realise that freedom of speech means hearing things and seeing things you might not like or agree with.

At the moment it seems like we're heading down a path to state-sanctioned opinions. That's not good.

I agree. I recognise it's a really tough line to walk, because when you look to somewhere like America with the freedom of speech enshrined in the constitution, it gets used as justification for all manner of vileness and gets twisted and abused horrifically (by people in positions of power). At the same time, the direction we seem to be moving in at the moment could equally be used by those in positions of power to ensure they control 'the message' (even more than already) and has very dangerous implications.

I don't necessarily agree with legislation being the answer to people being cunts, and I also don't necessarily agree with the vilest of individuals and groups being able to hide behind free speech laws in order to discriminate/cause harm. Finding a balance, and how to address that as a society (and not only through the law), is a herculean task, but it's one that I don't think simply saying "free speech is sacrosanct" goes far enough in helping solve. I certainly do not have the answer, and wouldn't know where to begin.

What it's clear we do need, however, is a society and system that is able to organise itself around the idea of context, because right now the way we legislate tends to paint with a broad brush, and while the details of cases are meant to be dealt with individually in the courts, the way we legislate still means that broad brush approach is applied anyway. Often times, though, the idea of context is lost not only in terms of how the state deals with this sort of thing, but also in how we debate it as well.
 
I agree. I recognise it's a really tough line to walk, because when you look to somewhere like America with the freedom of speech enshrined in the constitution, it gets used as justification for all manner of vileness and gets twisted and abused horrifically (by people in positions of power). At the same time, the direction we seem to be moving in at the moment could equally be used by those in positions of power to ensure they control 'the message' (even more than already) and has very dangerous implications.

I don't necessarily agree with legislation being the answer to people being cunts, and I also don't necessarily agree with the vilest of individuals and groups being able to hide behind free speech laws in order to discriminate/cause harm. Finding a balance, and how to address that as a society (and not only through the law), is a herculean task, but it's one that I don't think simply saying "free speech is sacrosanct" goes far enough in helping solve. I certainly do not have the answer, and wouldn't know where to begin.

What it's clear we do need, however, is a society and system that is able to organise itself around the idea of context, because right now the way we legislate tends to paint with a broad brush, and while the details of cases are meant to be dealt with individually in the courts, the way we legislate still means that broad brush approach is applied anyway. Often times, though, the idea of context is lost not only in terms of how the state deals with this sort of thing, but also in how we debate it as well.
I see a lot that is both good and bad about the way America deals with this issue. I think their freedom of speech attitudes allows more opinions to be spouted that are twisted and vile and in the name of God, for example, the protests outside women's health clinics about abortion. I would hate to see that spreading here on a wider basis.

There does need to be more about context, and I think that's the bit that's difficult to legislate because context is always changing and evolving. Any legal framework will struggle to manage that.
 
I see a lot that is both good and bad about the way America deals with this issue. I think their freedom of speech attitudes allows more opinions to be spouted that are twisted and vile and in the name of God, for example, the protests outside women's health clinics about abortion. I would hate to see that spreading here on a wider basis.

There does need to be more about context, and I think that's the bit that's difficult to legislate because context is always changing and evolving. Any legal framework will struggle to manage that.

Well see that's a great example. Those of us who vehemently defend the right of people to say offensive things online (like this guy in this case), what lengths would we be prepared to see gone to in order to protect the women who have to fight through crowds outside abortion clinics? I guess that's where context does come into it. And I don't think we have a mature (in outlook, not in age) enough legal system that can handle those differences currently.
 
Well see that's a great example. Those of us who vehemently defend the right of people to say offensive things online (like this guy in this case), what lengths would we be prepared to see gone to in order to protect the women who have to fight through crowds outside abortion clinics? I guess that's where context does come into it. And I don't think we have a mature (in outlook, not in age) enough legal system that can handle those differences currently.
Yes, I don't the legal system could manage. And that was one example. What about the Occupy movement, where protesters were rounded up and arrested? How would the framework manage two differing cases?
 
Parents at a Swansea school not permitted to watch their kids play football because of concerns raised by the April Jones case.
http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/A...-grounds-ban/story-17084542-detail/story.html

Seems to be a bit of confusion there. It may have been an over-zealous teacher rather than school policy. Fucking ridiculous though.

I know a guy who was confronted by someone in a park (a few years ago now) who told him they were going to call the police because he was taking photographs of his own daughter.
 
... I know a guy who was confronted by someone in a park (a few years ago now) who told him they were going to call the police because he was taking photographs of his own daughter.
I am a photographer. I am very wary of pointing my camera at kids who are not my own. I suppose the concerned person did not know the girl was his daughter.
 
This probably isn't the thread for it, but I'd love for one of those wankers you see round town taking pictures of people for their flickr or whatever shit it is without asking permission first to get strung up as a paedo.
 
Some people in Mach are getting pink ribbon tattoos...

145-April-Jones-missing-Parents-symbolise-eternal-hope-of.jpg
 
Mark Bridger denies murder, kidnap and perverting the course of justice but admits he was probably responsible for April Jones's death.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-21009177

Trial due to start February 25th.

It doesn't say that. It says The man accused of murdering missing five-year-old April Jones is expected to say he was probably responsible for her death but he did not murder her, a court has been told by his barrister.

WTF? then it changes down the page :confused:
 
I'm guessing he took the girl somewhere and she had a fall or something then he hid the body.
 
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