kalidarkone
Bringing YOU round.....
I felt the same, but felt hopeful regarding the male focus group.Watching this. Don't think its findings will be a surprise to most (any?) women on here. Might be interesting for the men to watch though.
Feminism and violence again women
- Thread starter friendofdorothy
- Start date
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
Thanks for posting.Watching this. Don't think its findings will be a surprise to most (any?) women on here. Might be interesting for the men to watch though.
Haven't watched that programme but supprised it needs to be 'undercover' as so much harassment is in full public view.
kalidarkone
Bringing YOU round.....
I think the point of the programme was to highlight the issue to men because many are disbelieving/ do find it surprising until they see the cold hard evidence in the footage shown to the focus group. It is made very clear by the presenter that it is not just a women's issue.
Also the main point is that harassement does go on within the public domain all the time and ignored or not noticed and the undercover role demonstrates this easily.
story
Changing the facts
It was interesting to see the men realise and acknowledge that the constant wariness that women feel about men is completely justified because some men act in this hideously predatory way, with impunity, in public, and that it’s frequent and commonplace.
Men often don’t believe women when they describe it (exaggeration, misinterpretation, overreaction... etc). Seeing the film made it more real.
Men often don’t believe women when they describe it (exaggeration, misinterpretation, overreaction... etc). Seeing the film made it more real.
kalidarkone
Bringing YOU round.....
I have two colleagues, women in their early and mid twenties whose male partners don't believe the risk posed to women on a night out. They are going to get them to watch the program.
GarveyLives
Well-Known Member
Zara Aleena: killer free to commit murder after ‘bungled assessment’
Family of law graduate say probation service and government have ‘blood on their hands’www.theweek.co.uk
Zara's post mortem showed no evidence of a weapon? Fucking hell, it must have been an extremely vicious attack. RIP Zara.
According to the sentencing judge earlier today:
Rex -v- Jordan McSweeney, Sentencing Remarks of Mrs Justice Cheema-Grubb, Central Criminal Court, 14 December 2022
George Carter-Stephenson KC, defending, told the court McSweeney knew CCTV footage would be played at the sentencing hearing and that he did not want to “relive” the incident.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Uncomfortable watch. I'm sure all of us women have experienced this behaviour pretty regularly. My main takeaway from this is that we need to state very clearly that we're not interested. The men took silence as consent, which is really worrying. But if they're so thick and entitled, they have to be told clearly and without any doubt to fuck off.Watching this. Don't think its findings will be a surprise to most (any?) women on here. Might be interesting for the men to watch though.
Okay, so I've certainly told men extremely clearly I'm not interested and to fuck off. That still doesn't seem clear enough for some of them.
And it's one thing telling someone to fuck off in a busy pub or somewhere with lots of people, quite another when you're on your own outside or somewhere more isolated. Because you've no idea if telling them to fuck off will result in things escalating and possible physical violence. (At least if you're in a pub, there's a chance someone will intervene if it does escalate.)
I really can't believe I'm having to explain this tbh.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
I'm talking about the situations the reporter was in. The predatory men asked her several times if it they could come with her, or take her somewhere. She didn't say no. They took that as consent.
I know there are men who ignore No, or Fuck off. Of course there are. But there are loads of situations where a firm No will make most creepy idiots go away. And to give women and girls the best chance of being as safe as possible, we need the confidence to express ourselves clearly.
I can't believe I'm having to explain this.
kalidarkone
Bringing YOU round.....
Yes I totally agree. I actually got frustrated while watching because I would of screamed FUCK OFF! in their faces....but I had to remember that she was demonstrating a point and that for a very drunk or frightened woman they may not be so forth right./ Be able to be forthright- also taking into account if they have been spiked and have no clue to what is happening.
I've had experiences of getting of the bus at night and being approached by complete strangers. I've asked them if they know me? They have replied no and in no uncertain terms I have told them they have no business approaching me or speaking to me and told them very loudly to do one
kalidarkone
Bringing YOU round.....
See my post.....I think k it covers both eventualities/ All scenarios.
kalidarkone
Bringing YOU round.....
Apart from as stated- threat of physical violence, being completely incapacitated etc.
The issue is that in order to stay safe we have to limit ourselves, stay vigilant etc and actually I'd love to be able to go out with out having to consider all this shit.
I always feel a little envious when my son talks about going for a run at night down the railway path! He doesn't even have to consider his safety!
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
Having the confidence to say no doesn't always help, if the men are not willing to hear it. Remember the NO MEANS NO slogans of the 70s/80s?
I'm sure a lot of us women have all too often been aware of the need to tread carefully as men can go from 'hello gorgeous' to 'you ugly bitch' violent in a nano-second. Many women have been socialised / learned to be polite, to change the subject and not say NO too clearly for fear.
When in a vulnerable situation (like being chatted up by a taxi driver) I've tried the 'my husband wouldn't like that' approach rather than NO (invented husband who is a boxer, didn't say I'm lesbian) - because if you can tell the predatory man only perceives you as an object he is thinking why can't he own you. I'm confident enough to say Fuck off - but sensible enough to know when that will only inflame a potentially dangerous situation. I think most women learn to do this, but we shouldn't have to do this. Men to recognise that their or their mates behaviour is creepy or idiotic. Hope this programme conveyed that
Perhaps we need a 'silence doesn't mean yes' campaign
So glad this no longer happens to me as I'm old (hoorah!)
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
I'm personally not afraid to say no directly to anyone, but the pest type of bloke won't listen anyway. That sort of man often buys into the myth that "girls always play games" or "women don't say what they mean" and I have had to specify to the moron "No, I'm not acting hard to get. I just. Don't. Fancy. You!"
RainbowTown
Well-Known Member
This piece of human filth should've been dragged in by his feet, if necessary, into the courtroom and made to 'relive' the horror he inflicted on that poor woman, whether he wanted to or not. Ditto his sentencing. What a total waste of oxygen space this bastard is. Hopefully, not long for this earth.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Looking back, the message was always so confusing.
There's long been a weird paradox in how girls and women are taught to deal with male attention, by family, school, the media and so on...
Boys and men "have needs" - be on your guard. Don't be a flirt, don't be a "prick tease", he won't be able to help himself. Don't wear "tarty" clothes, a man might rape you. What are you being so wary for, not all men are rapists. Be polite, don't be rude. Don't anger them, they could become dangerous. Don't wear "frumpy" clothes, they make you look ugly and no man will want you if you look ugly. Don't be frigid. Why did you encourage him? You can't accuse him of that, it'll ruin his life.
etc.
There's long been a weird paradox in how girls and women are taught to deal with male attention, by family, school, the media and so on...
Boys and men "have needs" - be on your guard. Don't be a flirt, don't be a "prick tease", he won't be able to help himself. Don't wear "tarty" clothes, a man might rape you. What are you being so wary for, not all men are rapists. Be polite, don't be rude. Don't anger them, they could become dangerous. Don't wear "frumpy" clothes, they make you look ugly and no man will want you if you look ugly. Don't be frigid. Why did you encourage him? You can't accuse him of that, it'll ruin his life.
etc.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I wonder if he was a steroid user? It would go some way to explain the utter brutality of the attack.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
No, that is not what I'm saying. One of the pictures shown showed him in a gym environment, where steroid abuse is rife. Rage reactions are common with steroid abuse. My grandson has been offered steroids in one the local gyms, I was wondering if it was a contributory factor only. NOT as a mitigating factor. There are no mitigating factors.
Rightly or wrongly blokes are given short shrift on these sorts of threads. I happen to like it as it makes me fuck off and think but it can be annoying if you feel you're posting in good faith.
ice-is-forming
let me rephrase that... Fuck off
steroids should have its own thread imo, it's rife!
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
My grandson asked me about steroids, so I told him. When we got to permanent acne and shrinking testicles, he had quite gone off the idea.
Looby
Well-Known Member
This isn’t a discussion about steroids, it’s about violence against women. Please stop.My grandson asked me about steroids, so I told him. When we got to permanent acne and shrinking testicles, he had quite gone off the idea.
bored@work
New Member
thing is the rise in PEDs is scary. I feel sorry for guys now having to work out around people constantly juicing. I know with cycling you can reduce the effects but it definately makes guys more aggy so you might have a point. not that its an excuse ofcMy grandson asked me about steroids, so I told him. When we got to permanent acne and shrinking testicles, he had quite gone off the idea.
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
Can't win, can we.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Do you feel that the two subjects are mutually exclusive? If so, why?
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