Feminism and violence again women
- Thread starter friendofdorothy
- Start date
story
Changing the facts
David Clapson is a noble savage
story
Changing the facts
jesus fucking christ this level of ignorance is alarming
bmd
Island in the stream.
I think that with any learning there is a beginning. Women here have lived with this all their lives and so have learned about it from day one. I need to catch up but those who want to beat on me because I'm not at their place of understanding are wasting their time because understanding is a journey, imo.
People's experiences are valid. Of course they are. I genuinely meant what I said about engaging in the here and now. My mind sees things differently from one day to the next and so I just want to talk to get a sense of where they are at. I can read but it's not a conversation. However , I am going to read the thread back now I have an opinion. It muddies my thoughts when I'm trying to understand something new and I have loads of other people's feelings in there too. I prefer to stream my consciousness with them but I guess I need to find a way to do that and accommodate their feelings too.
I want to understand. I do. I just can't accept that I am no different from my dad. I won't. It really saddens me that I can't talk here about this without seemingly upsetting people but then I was reading Arendt's book about Eichmann's trial and the amount of shit she got for that was epic, which put this spat in perspective for me and gave me permission to have my own thoughts too.
Lastly, I have seen the notifications of posts quoting me or tagging me in. I want to read some of them, iona for example I think would be interesting but it will clang around my head for days if they are simply messages telling me what a cunt I am. Yes, there's an open goal there for anyone to slot home a ball about lived experience but maybe this whole thing is about empathy? Mine and yours.
Thank you so much for your support. It means a lot. I clicked on your notification with a lot of hope but also a heavy heart. It would have really hurt if you had frothed at me too. Love to you and your family.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
A vile wretch with no redeeming features, an ignoble savage. A couple of the most shocking posts I've seen on here, and that's up against some stiff competition
bmd
Island in the stream.
You want to talk to me then talk to me. I'm not telling you anything other than what I am learning. The intro in Rose's book that I quoted says what I was trying to say. I'm sorry that you feel that all men's contributions to this subject are only valid once they have your massive level of knowledge. I'll be honest, it feels like your hatred is for the entire male gender. What makes you different from a man who feels the same about all women? From where I am it looks like you feel justified because. Doesn't every man too? I mean, if you want to just wind me up then I'm game but we can talk too.Thanks Thora. They are here to quote bits of books at us they don't yet understand and tell us we're not teaching them feminism right.Doing the on line equivalent of talking over us and down to us. Any minute now one will be along to tell us to cheer up love or tell us we have no sense of humour...
Get ready, Urbs! Pitchforks and torches to the fore!
izz
Increased Leisure Citizen
I've always found friendofdorothy to be quite well-balanced actually but I guess we all have our own perceptions
bmd
Island in the stream.
I've always found friendofdorothy to be quite well-balanced actually but I guess we all have our own perceptions
Mine is based on her reactions to me on this thread. It feels like her belief in Men, all Men is centred around don't trust them. Don't believe them. They will commit violence against you given the chance.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I don't always agree with friendofdorothy but her posts are always worth reading and thinking about. Yeh we don't I think get on but imo her posts contribute vastly more to urban than many people realise.I've always found friendofdorothy to be quite well-balanced actually but I guess we all have our own perceptions
bmd
Island in the stream.
I'm glad about that. Urban is important to me too. I also think that people who have more influence than others have more responsibility too. Her anger comes across. It's to the fore. It doesn't server her well, when talking to the subject of it imo. I'm sure she goes down a storm with the ladies though.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Tbh if you read her posts you'll see why she's angry. If you're not angry you're not paying attention. And your focus on her anger seems to me a twist on tropes about difficult women and hysteria, I hope I'm wrong in reading that in your post. Yeh there are things we can discuss dispassionately but male violence against women and the way in which this is tacitly supported by many men isn't one. How can you look at eg the rape and murder of Sarah Everard without being angry? Let alone the harassment very many women encounter every day. If that doesn't rile you beyond belief you're not paying attention to what you're being told
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Or tiled
bmd
Island in the stream.
What? I cannot get away from this, can I? I'm fucking engaging with a human being about shit that involves ALL OF US!!!! Fucking hell. Fuck this thread.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
So, I wonder if the Jacqueline Rose piece covers some similar ground to the piece linked to by Fozzie Bear, both point to the gap between a fantasy of masculinity and the reality, and violence filling some of that gap.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
How many times do I have to say Not All Men!
I'm not angry, I'm not even interested in you. I thought I was being dismissive maybe vaguely irratated that here's yet another man who doesn't have a considered viewpoint but feels utterly entitled to clog up an important debate with his neediness. No idea how you read that as anger.
Am I angry at the ingrained structural patriachy that I see all around me yes I fucking am. Am I angry that 2 women a week are killed by men they know? Yes! Am I angry to that our police and justice system are not helping? Fucking yes I'm angry.
Why do you read that as anger against you?
I'd say by urban standards on the political boards your treatment here is really mild.
I wouldn't say I'm especially well read (well not in recent decades) But I do have the unfortunate experience of being an older woman who has had to navigate this shit all my life. Do I generally value women's contributions to threads on feminism more that men's? Well generally yes I do*. I find women have more personal experience and have considered the subject more, if that makes me biased against the prevailing tide of male opinion, so what?
*NAW of course.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
Thank you. I appreciate the respect.
What influence do I have? Are women not allowed to be angry?
Yes.
If you are not angry you are not paying attention sums it up.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
Be more ladylike? Don't shout, don't get angry, don't fight! It's not ladylike
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
Remember it well as a young woman trying to make sense of a mad world.
See it in the context of the Yorkshire ripper murdering women and women being told to stay home for their own safety. Of page three lovelies and reports of violent rape being published side by side. Of rape victims having their names and addresses published in newspapers. Of children being blamed for their own abuse. Of rape survivers being told they were asking for it. Of rape within marriage being legal. Of domestic violence not being treated as a crime. Of women being under represented in or barred from the press, professions, law, in parliament.
Scum was punk feminist vitriol. Historic and of its time.
Was it over the top? Yes but I can see why.
Edit to add I probably read the 1983 edition, which unlike now wasn't widely available. It chimed with those times.
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