Feminism and the silencing of women

[Poot]

Sorry to hear that Looby. There is absolutely nothing that you can do unless you don't mind being humiliated further by being actually singled out for more of the same as soon as you put your head above the parapet. Imagine what would have been said if you'd shouted or walked out. It's a no-win situation.

I hate those situations. I hate the way they make me feel. I think complaining the next day was the right thing to do and I'm surprised no one else did the same.

 

[mango5]

I was in a very crowded workplace social club very near Whitehall one evening last week and 2 men in their 60s were watching videos of very busty naked women jiggling their tits. Three of us could see it from the adjacent table. On the way out I told them that they were behaving in poor taste amongst colleagues and received only shrugs and 'you're making it up' responses. All the other men at their table ignored the exchange. I may as well have been mute.

Looby good on you for raising it with management. I left the scene of the above incident and never thought to go back. However you try to respond, it's a losing situation because this shit is so normal that challenging it in any way is abnormal and oversensitive.

 

[Chilli.s]

If anyone says "can't say that anymore" ... there's a reason, cos it wasn't funny in the 70s either. And it's offensive now even more than then. Well done for phoning them up to put them right.

 

[polly]

Looby good on you for raising it with management. I left the scene of the above incident and never thought to go back. However you try to respond, it's a losing situation because this shit is so normal that challenging it in any way is abnormal and oversensitive.

Yes, and it's your fault for not having a sense of humour, or a 'different' one I pulled someone up at a small gathering for telling a racist joke a couple of years ago and ended up feeling like the person who had ruined everyone's fun, when really ofc it was the cunt who told a racist joke.

Well done for complaining Looby - would have been much easier to just let it slide.

 

[Steel Icarus]

If anyone says "can't say that anymore" ... there's a reason, cos it wasn't funny in the 70s either. And it's offensive now even more than then. Well done for phoning them up to put them right.

Jim Bowen actually released a DVD called



Then don't, you silly old bigot

 

[Poot]

Jim Bowen actually released a DVD called

View attachment 200728

Then don't, you silly old bigot

Fucking politically correct killjoy, Catsbum.

 

[Jennastan]

If anyone says "can't say that anymore" ... there's a reason, cos it wasn't funny in the 70s either. And it's offensive now even more than then. Well done for phoning them up to put them right.

Like all the transphobes constantly shouting, filling up air time, and all over the press telling us stuff they say they aren't allowed to say. Yeah right.

 

[mango5]

Yes, and it's your fault for not having a sense of humour, or a 'different' one I pulled someone up at a small gathering for telling a racist joke a couple of years ago and ended up feeling like the person who had ruined everyone's fun, when really ofc it was the cunt who told a racist joke.

Well done for complaining Looby - would have been much easier to just let it slide.

We're not always quiet about these things. For me, this thread is substantially about how and why our voices are ignored, and the self-perpetuating effects of that. We already know that society values women less.

This is one of many corrosive parts of silencing behaviour. Minimising bantz.

I had been comparing this incident with a similar one where a fellow was watching porn on his phone on a crowded bus. I did not challenge him. This continues to bother me. The social club incident brought it to the surface again.

As I have said before, the effects of these situations are compounded when later we start feeling inadequate because we saved mental and physical energy by having to act with fake pleasantness and unassertiveness.

When considering how and when to challenge shitty behaviour by men towards women we are too often caught between real fear of aggressive response, tedious corrosive mocking, and self-recrimination.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Repeating myself

 

[TopCat]

I went to a quiz last night at a sports and social club. Not somewhere I’d usually go but there was a big group of people going that my bezzer knew and I love a quiz.
Anyway, it was dreadful. There were several fat jokes aimed at Rebel Wilson, there was a question about page 3 and two comments about the killjoys that got it banned and lots of ‘jokes’ about/at the expense of women.
a cooking question was introduced as one for the ladies. He kept referring to one team as the virgins and said you can tell they’re virgins just by looking at them etc Ha fucking ha.
There was at one point a dodgy accent over a song which I’m fairly sure was very racist.
He kept following awful comments with ‘oh no, we can’t say that any more can we’.

So much of it was about putting women down, patronizing, mocking and out and out attacking us.
I’m angry that he thought this was ok, I’m angry that people seemed to be lapping this shit up and that no-one but me and my bezzer seemed bothered by it. There were 3 tables of professionals who really should know better including the bloke who invited everyone as he’s a regular.
I’m also angry that I did and said nothing beyond moaning with my mate. I should have complained then or walked out or something but I didn’t want to cause a fuss so I just grimaced through it. I knew I’d be in the minority and I couldn’t face it.

I complained today and the manager of the venue said he’d listen in next week and decide if he thinks the content is offensive but basically said he’s sorry I was upset but maybe I have a different sense of humour.


Why is this stuff so hard to tackle. I’ve been questioning if I’m the problem all day since I called the manager. Fucksake.

Throwback comedians , refugees from the 70's who still peddle this racist sexist generally unfunny act do still exist but really are small in number compared to thirty years ago. You won't have been the only person fuming!
What to do about it? I would suggest yelling abuse myself.

 

[TopCat]

Jim Bowen actually released a DVD called

View attachment 200728

Then don't, you silly old bigot

Horrible racist shit Bowen was.

 

[TopCat]

Simply walking out, throwing a drink in their direction, yelling abuse certainly does have an effect and should never be considered as inefectual.

 

[Looby]

Simply walking out, throwing a drink in their direction, yelling abuse certainly does have an effect and should never be considered as inefectual.

I really can’t do that, especially in a group of other people from my profession. I have to go to this venue for training!
I haven’t heard anything from the manager, he’ll assume I’ve forgotten about my complaint but I’ll have a lot of time on my hands in the next few weeks.

 

[TopCat]

Regarding “all men”.

No one is blaming “all men”: women are complicit in the patriarchy, have a fundamental role to play in the socialisation of little boys, and those boys’ understanding of their own future relationships with women.

Things need to change for future generations and women are squarely in the frame in that regard, alongside fathers and other Male role models, of course. So no one is holding “all men” exclusively responsible for the changes our society needs to make.

But that’s a separate issue to those people committing violent and aggressive crime to both men and women now, in the present. Because those perpetrators are overwhelmingly men.

There’s a thought experiment, that if all men had a curfew of 7pm, how would that change the world. If you like, compare it to a 7pm female curfew. The first would transform society, the second would barely make an impact. Doesn’t that provoke some really big questions?


Look at all violent crime. Armed robbery, rape, terrorism, DV, child abuse... the overwhelming, crushing majority is perpetrated by men. If that majority belonged to, say an imaginary world religion I’m going to name Sudkrat, there would be an understandable social demand to examine the Sudkrat faith and practices, and systemically change them. Peaceable Sudkrats would exist as a majority, but you’d understand why people were concerned about their contact with Sudkrat people - after all, if anyone in your life is going to hurt you, it’s overwhelmingly likely to be a Sudkrat. Peaceful Sudkrats would have to accept responsibility for being a key part of that change.

Child abuse is in the main carried out by women. The NSPCC have studied this in depth. The conclusion being most abuse of children is caused by stressed and troubled parents. Women are the majority care givers so feel these streses more and then a proportion act in an abusive manner.

Sexual abuse of children is as far as we know overwhelmingly carried out by men. However it was not that long ago that social workers would never look into allegations that some women gained sexual pleasure from abusing children.
Thankfully attitudes change and kids, are less likely to be ignored if reporting abuse.

 

[TopCat]

I really can’t do that, especially in a group of other people from my profession. I have to go to this venue for training!
I haven’t heard anything from the manager, he’ll assume I’ve forgotten about my complaint but I’ll have a lot of time on my hands in the next few weeks.

Fair enough. I agree a work situation is going to be much harder to handle than a night out with mates where this happens.
Kudos to you for pushing the complaint. Keep at it.

 

[Looby]

Fair enough. I agree a work situation is going to be much harder to handle than a night out with mates where this happens.
Kudos to you for pushing the complaint. Keep at it.

Sorry what I said was quite confusing. It was a social thing but organised by my friend’s colleagues who are mostly the same profession as me. It was also held in a venue where my employer sometimes holds training so it’s a bit awkward to kick off in any way that isn’t professional as the lines are a bit blurred.

 

[TopCat]

Thank you, Marshall McLuhan!

Had to look him up. Cant see any relevance to be fair.

 

[TopCat]

Your language has given me every reason to think you don't think much about the abused and murdered women being discussed much. Femicide is the ultimate silencing.

you are 2nd in the list of most replies on this thread. You take up space in a thread about the silencing of women and you didn't consider your language. Not really, no.

You would be better to have some respect and just shut the fuck up.

Be silenced Pickmans.

 

[Santino]

Topcat bravely standing up to women again. Truly a champion of the oppressed.

 

[TopCat]

If those posters were making racist jokes, would they still be here, and still doing the same type of jokes again next week?

Why not deal with the actual issues here? Defending millionaire Gwyneth for selling shit to women that they dont need, that could make them ill, undermining their confidence in order to do so successfully was not your great feminist moment.

 

[scifisam]

Child abuse is in the main carried out by women. The NSPCC have studied this in depth. The conclusion being most abuse of children is caused by stressed and troubled parents. Women are the majority care givers so feel these streses more and then a proportion act in an abusive manner.

Sexual abuse of children is as far as we know overwhelmingly carried out by men. However it was not that long ago that social workers would never look into allegations that some women gained sexual pleasure from abusing children.
Thankfully attitudes change and kids, are less likely to be ignored if reporting abuse.

The absolute numbers may have most child abuse carried out by women due to women looking after children in much greater numbers, but as a percentage, female parents are somewhat less likely to abuse than male parents. Abuse during childhood - Office for National Statistics

Perpetrators were most likely to be a parent for those that had suffered psychological abuse (father, 35% and mother, 40%) or physical abuse (father, 39% and mother, 29%).

(It doesn't give the same breakdowns for sexual abuse).

 

[TopCat]

If those posters were making racist jokes, would they still be here, and still doing the same type of jokes again next week?

Straw men again. Do you think it acceptable for men to criticise the likes of Paltrow for her exploitative actions towards women?

Can women do no wrong? If they can do wrong, can this be assessed without somehow blaming men for the woman's actions?

 

[wayward bob]

you might not feel (from your end) as though you're part of a movement trying to beat womens voices into the ground TopCat but you're making a remarkable impression of it from where i'm sat. i've no idea if that's your thing or not...

 

[scifisam]

you might not feel (from your end) as though you're part of a movement trying to beat womens voices into the ground TopCat but you're making a remarkable impression of it from where i'm sat. i've no idea if that's your thing or not...

Yup. Maybe a separate thread about how terrible women are, rather than attempting to silence women on a thread about the silencing of women?

 

[Poot]

Absolutely no one has said that women are perfect.

And when everyone's shouting at the sexist, it ends up being just a lot of shouting and being shouted over.

Good. Now that's out of the way, maybe we can carry on talking.

 

[Santino]

Straw men again. Do you think it acceptable for men to criticise the likes of Paltrow for her exploitative actions towards women?

Can women do no wrong? If they can do wrong, can this be assessed without somehow blaming men for the woman's actions?

This is the straw man. I'm not saying women can't be criticised. I'm saying that sexist and misogynist jokes are seen as ok when racist jokes would rightly earn someone a ban.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Absolutely no one has said that women are perfect.

And when everyone's shouting at the sexist, it ends up being just a lot of shouting and being shouted over.

Good. Now that's out of the way, maybe we can carry on talking.

Maybe we should all just shut up and be told about ourselves. Yes, maybe that's the way to go. Just sit here nicely and take whatever is thrown at us. Accept our punishment, be corrected, demure ourselves to the authoritative voice.

 

[TopCat]

you might not feel (from your end) as though you're part of a movement trying to beat womens voices into the ground TopCat but you're making a remarkable impression of it from where i'm sat. i've no idea if that's your thing or not...

I Left the thread for over six months? Hardly beating women's voices into the ground. I do think it ironic that a constant theme in this thread about the silencing of women is that no women are being silenced and many are enjoying yelling at men to be silent.

But hey I will back off from the thread and stick a couple of posters on ignore again.

 

[TopCat]

This is the straw man. I'm not saying women can't be criticised. I'm saying that sexist and misogynist jokes are seen as ok when racist jokes would rightly earn someone a ban.

Are they seen as ok though? You should consider a thread in feedback as you suggest that sexism and misogyny are not treated seriously. Things have changed here over the decades but I'm sure the mods and editor would take any accusation of an easy ride for sexist and misogynist posters seriously.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

But hey I will back off from the thread and stick a couple of posters on ignore again.

The ultimate silencing!

 

[spanglechick]

Child abuse is in the main carried out by women. The NSPCC have studied this in depth. The conclusion being most abuse of children is caused by stressed and troubled parents. Women are the majority care givers so feel these streses more and then a proportion act in an abusive manner.

Sexual abuse of children is as far as we know overwhelmingly carried out by men. However it was not that long ago that social workers would never look into allegations that some women gained sexual pleasure from abusing children.
Thankfully attitudes change and kids, are less likely to be ignored if reporting abuse.

My post, quoted by you, was specifically about violent crime. Violent abuse of children is predominantly done by fathers.