WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
There’s a reason the UK doesn’t have such a severe fascist problem like many European countries and that’s not due to pithy middle class liberal retorts.
Fascists, Fascism and the Invasion.
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
There’s a reason the UK doesn’t have such a severe fascist problem like many European countries and that’s not due to pithy middle class liberal retorts.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Is it due to shooting people, or is it due to a use of physical force that stops short of deadly violence?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Just to remind the conversation that there's no evidence that any of these people killed (and likely tortured) by the Russian State when prisoners of war were actually fascists.
Also interesting Venn diagram overlap of the people who are against the war escalating and against any outside involvement on the Ukrainian side, yet also seem to have no problems with POW execution without trial by the Russian State as if that was some neutral not-escalation thing with no possible long term negative outcomes.
But feel free to carry on trying to out macho one another about how great it is killing fascists, especially if done by a authoritarian State's military with no trial or evidence.
Also interesting Venn diagram overlap of the people who are against the war escalating and against any outside involvement on the Ukrainian side, yet also seem to have no problems with POW execution without trial by the Russian State as if that was some neutral not-escalation thing with no possible long term negative outcomes.
But feel free to carry on trying to out macho one another about how great it is killing fascists, especially if done by a authoritarian State's military with no trial or evidence.
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Olena Semenyaku 2018
"Azov doesn't have a problem with Jews"
"Azov doesn't have a problem with Jews"
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Are fascists interested in 'free and fair' debate and discussion in the 'marketplace of ideas'? Are those who have literally fought fascists just a load of thick, thuggish 'working class types'?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Some are, it's a process, but simply put I think there are steps between "this person is not listening" and "I'm going to kill this person". I can imagine situations where those steps are not many, but I don't think we should ever be looking to cut them down further.
Anyway I know this kind of soppy outlook gets slated and I don't care, it's my conscience and I'll use it how I bloody well want
I don't accept this designation as valid. Also, context is vital, especially where violence is concerned. In my worldview there is no blanket justification for violence except self-defence, and I speak as something of a reformed aggressor myself.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Some are, it's a process, but simply put I think there are steps between "this person is not listening" and "I'm going to kill this person". I can imagine situations where those steps are not many, but I don't think we should ever be looking to cut them down further.
Anyway I know this kind of soppy outlook gets slated and I don't care, it's my conscience and I'll use it how I bloody well want
I don't accept this designation as valid. Also, context is vital, especially where violence is concerned. In my worldview there is no blanket justification for violence except self-defence, and I speak as something of a reformed aggressor myself.
Violence, even that which stops short of killing is awful, damaging to all involved and traumatic. If I remember a similar discussion on here regarding clashes with the BUF, a poster mentioned the consequences of it. Permanent impairment from broken limbs, the loss of eyes, brain damage etc.
People aren't inherently this or that, but contested ideologically speaking. But a threat eventually can become a case of my violence must defeat your violence. I couldn't punch the skin off a bowl of rice pudding, and don't get a thrill from living vicariously through the actions of those who do use it, but it is necessary. I put the bit you bolded in quotation marks, because that has been and is used to describe those who do put their bodies on the line combating a threat that would kill if it had a chance, with all its centrist smugness and classist baggage.
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
I’m sure we’re all conveniently convinced and assured by this statement.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
That was her aim. She was talking to a journalist working for Bellincat who was interviewing her about Azov. She's a key figure in the Azov Movement and has been pivotal in their media strategy.You could say that this is the image that they feel its important to put out to an externally facing western Liberal audience.
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
It apparently worked a treat.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Has the conversation ended then? lol
I genuinely had no idea you were after having your mind changed by me, I'm touched. I'll try harder from here on in.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
I remember my granddad on my mother's side had his nose absolutely smashed in a clash with the BUF, in Harpurhey, I think it was, in the mid-late 1930s. I don't think he could ever breathe through his nose quite the same afterwards. He was far from a violent man, but he knew what was at stake in terms of local politiical organising, as well as the wider picture..
He died in 1979, but he had some fucking tales to tell. I used to wish he was still around when I got a bit older.
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TopCat
Putin fanboy
Did you support the Taliban as this was what they were doing?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Olena Semenyaku speaking to the Nordic Resistance Movement at a joint seminar March 2020
"Having had a minority of jews involved within our nationalist political sphere has damaged our reputation. Jews with "ties to the international capital would be expelled from Ukraine if Azov ever took power."
"Having had a minority of jews involved within our nationalist political sphere has damaged our reputation. Jews with "ties to the international capital would be expelled from Ukraine if Azov ever took power."
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
I didn't support the brutal and racist British occupation of Helmand and I can understand the inevitable resistance to that occupation.
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Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
The old changing of mind routine really did the trick there.
Humberto
minor kerfuffles ensue
I thought the insurgency was largely fueled and created by the brutal and unjustified invasion and occupation.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
But people shied from offering support for the Taliban.
Humberto
minor kerfuffles ensue
Zelenski is equivalent?
Afghanistan had the triple whammy of Soviet invasion and Pakistani ISI/CIA.
Ultimately Pakistan splitting the resistance and forming the Taliban post conflict.
Ukraine doesn't have a meddling neighbour like that.
Zelenski was performing poorly before the war so remains to be seen what will happen.
Good article on the Novorossiya movement and it's players in the Russian media reporting from the front lines.
www.theleftberlin.com
Putinisher Beobachter – Documenting How Nazis and far-right journalists in Russia Engage in War Propaganda
New Research from Russia shows the extent of Nazi Influence on State Media
www.theleftberlin.com
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
Watch My Nazi Legacy - BFI Player
What if your father was a Nazi? This is the harrowing question raised in David Evans’ thought-provoking documentary.
player.bfi.org.uk
This is worth a watch regarding Nazis in Ukraine past and present.
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
The doc is about 2 sons a Nazis both German but had responsibilities in Ukraine. The documentary maker visits Ukraine and meets modern day Nazis that still honour Ukrainian fascists from WWII.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
very useful and balanced as it also covers what at first seems unbelievable that Russian fash who moved to Ukraine were instrumental in setting up AzovGood article on the Novorossiya movement and it's players in the Russian media reporting from the front lines.
Putinisher Beobachter – Documenting How Nazis and far-right journalists in Russia Engage in War Propaganda
New Research from Russia shows the extent of Nazi Influence on State Media
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
I'd put this in the main thread if I could, but I suppose it belongs here too.
A nationalist militant and former FSB officer who helped launch a 2014 war in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region, compared the collapse of one of the conflict’s principal front lines to a catastrophic defeat in the Russo-Japanese war which triggered Russia’s 1905 Revolution.
Igor Girkin said it was like the 1905 Battle of Mukden, which ended took place two days after the revolution started.
Ukraine has hailed its rapid advance, which saw thousands of Russian soldiers flee, leaving behind ammunition stockpiles and equipment, as a turning point in the 6-month-old war.
Girkin, who has been unsparing in his criticisms of the country’s top brass, dubbing defence minister Shoigu “the cardboard marshal”, has said repeatedly that Russia will be defeated in Ukraine if it doesn’t declare a nationwide mobilisation, Reuters reports.
Nationalist anger at military failure is potentially a far greater problem for the Kremlin than pro-Western liberal criticism of Putin: opinion polls continue to show broad support for what Moscow calls the “special military operation”.
As the capital celebrated Moscow Day with street parties and concerts on Saturday, rumblings of disquiet even spread to Russia’s ordinarily subservient parliament.
Sergei Mironov, leader of the nominally opposition but Putin-loyal Just Russia party, said on Twitter that a firework display in honour of the holiday should be cancelled, in view of the military situation.
One message reposted on Telegram by the prominent war correspondent Semyon Pegov referred to the celebrations in Moscow as “blasphemous” and the refusal of Russian authorities to embark on full-scale war as “schizophrenic”.
“Either Russia will become itself through the birth of a new political elite ... or it will cease to exist,” it read.
A nationalist militant and former FSB officer who helped launch a 2014 war in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region, compared the collapse of one of the conflict’s principal front lines to a catastrophic defeat in the Russo-Japanese war which triggered Russia’s 1905 Revolution.
Igor Girkin said it was like the 1905 Battle of Mukden, which ended took place two days after the revolution started.
Ukraine has hailed its rapid advance, which saw thousands of Russian soldiers flee, leaving behind ammunition stockpiles and equipment, as a turning point in the 6-month-old war.
Girkin, who has been unsparing in his criticisms of the country’s top brass, dubbing defence minister Shoigu “the cardboard marshal”, has said repeatedly that Russia will be defeated in Ukraine if it doesn’t declare a nationwide mobilisation, Reuters reports.
Nationalist anger at military failure is potentially a far greater problem for the Kremlin than pro-Western liberal criticism of Putin: opinion polls continue to show broad support for what Moscow calls the “special military operation”.
As the capital celebrated Moscow Day with street parties and concerts on Saturday, rumblings of disquiet even spread to Russia’s ordinarily subservient parliament.
Sergei Mironov, leader of the nominally opposition but Putin-loyal Just Russia party, said on Twitter that a firework display in honour of the holiday should be cancelled, in view of the military situation.
One message reposted on Telegram by the prominent war correspondent Semyon Pegov referred to the celebrations in Moscow as “blasphemous” and the refusal of Russian authorities to embark on full-scale war as “schizophrenic”.
“Either Russia will become itself through the birth of a new political elite ... or it will cease to exist,” it read.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Part of the problem is that those at the top are not admitting that things have gone wrong, you probably saw the minister’s statement yesterday about how the withdrawal was orderly and planned so as to reinforce elsewhere, everything fine, no tanks in Baghdad. People are used to being taken for mugs in Russia, but their tolerance only goes so far and there appears to be significant disquiet about the failure to acknowledge the fuck-ups. Someone had to answer for the hundreds of coffins and thousands of POWs.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
As the above post says, however, the reaction is apparently coming from those to the right of the regime. I remember speculation on here about this possibility/ probability in the early days of the war.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
A somewhat speculative article on the relationship between the Putin regime and ultranationalists.
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