Fascist attack on SWP in Lewisham

[emanymton]

Whilst there's a large element of truth in that, it's also the case that the SWP have an extremely poor record of defending their own members or of organising even minimal levels of security - even in circumstances where they have come under sustained attacks from the far right. From personal experience, I know the leadership/organisers have even gone so far as to deny/cover-up the fact that attacks have happened, simply for the reason that the alternative - organising some sort of response - was in their eyes worse.

That said, this will probably turn out to be a one off/bit of opportunism - the EDL haven't the capability of organising this kind of thing on any sustained basis, in my view.

Well Martin Smith Tweeted about it so no cover up this time, but it doesn't surprise that they try to keep it quite in the past.

Some of the SWP really are very stupid/naive when t comes to security, if this was a normal Saturday sale they had been going on for umpteen years with no problems then fair enough, but if I understand correctly this was for the end of an ant-fascist cavalcade? In which case it's common sense to scout the area before setting up your stall isn't it? I also find myself wondering if it was accidental they there where both pensioners, maybe it was felt that a couple of pensioners would be safer than younger fitter people. I'm not sure if this makes things better or worse.

I do think it is likely that this is a one off though, I know people in the SWP in strong EDL area and a year or so ago they had to be conscious about security with there Saturday sales, but recently it's been a lot better and they've had no problems.

 

[Red Storm]

This was opportune for two reasons. Liverpool Anti fascists are robust enough now and the Mayoral election with Tierney as NF candidate means it gains more publicity.

http://www.facebook.com/LiverpoolIrishAntiFascists

 

[discokermit]

pissed up soccer teams fans!

small point but it's football fans, not "soccer team fans".

 

[The39thStep]

@ DrRingRing - Which supports the point I was making, rather than detracting from it.

He no listen

 

[Red Storm]

small point but it's football fans, not "soccer team fans".

I read soccer comes from Association Football and wikipedia says it was an Oxford -er which gave the 'soc' the 'er'.

So saying soccer is like saying rugger for rugby.

Is there a vomit emoticon? These will have to do:

 

[co-op]

I read soccer comes from Association Football and wikipedia says it was an Oxford -er which gave the 'soc' the 'er'.

So saying soccer is like saying rugger for rugby.

Is there a vomit emoticon? These will have to do:

Aye, they still say "soc" for "society" or "association" in Oxford, so the Drama Society is the "DramSoc" (pronounced sock). "Soccer", i.e. Association rules (i.e. Football Association, set up by Oxbridge) is directly opposed to Rugger, i.e. Rugby rules. It's from the same slang that gives us "brekkers" for breakfast. Edwardian.

 

[Pickman's model]

the only people i have ever heard call football soccer haven't been football fans.

 

[co-op]

the only people i have ever heard call football soccer haven't been football fans.

And yanks, ozzies, kiwis etc. Oh hang on...

 

[Transpontine]

the only people i have ever heard call football soccer haven't been football fans.

Not strictly true - Americans are allowed to use the term 'soccer' as they have that funny version of 'football'.

 

[discokermit]

there is only one football and that's football.

 

[co-op]

It's like saying "varsity". Just puts yer teeth on edge.

 

[audiotech]

As for my experience with the SWP and defence against fascist attacks, some good lads and lasses that you could rely on and there were others (including a couple of working class ex members now I hold in total contempt), who you would turn around in the midst of a ding dong and they would be nowhere to be seen. You can be sure that is the case with most organisations faced with violence. If you're an old age pensioner, you don't stand much of a chance faced with a young thug bent on giving it one. Kudos to one of the pensioners, who it seems went to help the other out.

 

[discokermit]

Whilst there's a large element of truth in that, it's also the case that the SWP have an extremely poor record of defending their own members or of organising even minimal levels of security - even in circumstances where they have come under sustained attacks from the far right. From personal experience, I know the leadership/organisers have even gone so far as to deny/cover-up the fact that attacks have happened, simply for the reason that the alternative - organising some sort of response - was in their eyes worse.

That said, this will probably turn out to be a one off/bit of opportunism - the EDL haven't the capability of organising this kind of thing on any sustained basis, in my view.

so they should organise self defence squads on the off chance of opportunist one offs? you do realise that doesn't really make sense, don't you?

denying attacks? i'm not saying that hasn't happened but i'd like to see some sort of proof. swp inter branch gossip would make it nigh on impossible.

the only time i remember anything happening when i was a member was a paper sale in bloxwich getting hassled. the next week we turned up in numbers and leafletted along with the sale. i don't think they bothered again.

 

[audiotech]

past caring presents himself sometimes as 'mr tough guy' and is liberal with use of the word "c*nt", usually proceeded with the word "thick". This, probably to demonstrate how "tough" he is and what he believes to be his "superior intelligence". Comes across as a tool to me when in this mode. I'm sure he's a decent fella really and I trust he takes this in the spirit it was meant.

 

[HST]

As for my experience with the SWP and defence against fascist attacks, some good lads and lasses that you could rely on and there were others (including a couple of working class ex members I now hold in contempt), who you would turn around in the midst of a ding dong and they would be nowhere to be seen. You can be sure that is the case with most organisations faced with violence. If you're an old age pensioner, you don't stand much of a chance faced with a young thug bent on giving it one. Kudos to one of the pensioners, who it seems went to help the other out.

We need a show of strength in Lewisham next week and other groups should join the SWP on this. I'm not a member of any party but it's time for a bit of left solidarity - how will the fash feel if next week there's not just a SWP presence but a bunch of other groups? People will need to be aware that they may be attacked arriving at or leaving such an action. Travel in groups. Be wary. Be watchful. We have been here before and we've seen them off before. Solidarity.

 

[audiotech]

Indeed.

Activist Andrew Smith, 69, was helping man the regular Socialist Worker stall in Lewisham High Street on Saturday at around noon when he was head butted in the face, while his colleague, 67, was punched to the floor.

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9678991.Pensioner_head_butted_in_extreme_right_wing_thug_attack/

 

[rekil]

Cheers, but who the fuck uses Myspace anymore?

Donna Young just earned the In The Spotlight badge

Because your photos are earning quite a bit of attention.

...

 

[past caring]

so they should organise self defence squads on the off chance of opportunist one offs? you do realise that doesn't really make sense, don't you?

Where did I say that?

denying attacks? i'm not saying that hasn't happened but i'd like to see some sort of proof. swp inter branch gossip would make it nigh on impossible.

the only time i remember anything happening when i was a member was a paper sale in bloxwich getting hassled. the next week we turned up in numbers and leafletted along with the sale. i don't think they bothered again.

Big northern lad, worked at the printshop, bad complexion - I worked there too - he got cabbaged by the BNP down Brick Lane at the point the SWP were trying to relaunch the ANL - 91? - 92? Following week, in Surrey Docks when we were supposed to be leafleting and two of us had seen a van load of BNP driving around, the local full timer denied the previous week's attack, accused us of sowing paranoia blah, blah. There were a number of other incidents around the same time, some of which I only became aware of later - precisely because local organisers were told to keep a lid on things.

 

[past caring]

past caring presents himself sometimes as 'mr tough guy' and is liberal with use of the word "c*nt", usually proceeded with the word "thick". This, probably to demonstrate how "tough" he is and what he believes to be his "superior intelligence". Comes across as a tool to me when in this mode. I'm sure he's a decent fella really and I trust he takes this in the spirit it was meant.

Only when I'm speaking to you, cunt.

 

[malatesta32]

the only people i have ever heard call football soccer haven't been football fans.

you're right on this count. soccer teams are full overpaid soccer players distracting the proletariat and encouraging regionalism and parcohialism. you dont get that with cricket mate!

 

[bignose1]

you're right on this count. soccer teams are full overpaid soccer players distracting the proletariat and encouraging regionalism and parcohialism. you dont get that with cricket mate!

Just for today only while Im sulking I will concur on that

 

[The39thStep]

past caring presents himself sometimes as 'mr tough guy' and is liberal with use of the word "c*nt", usually proceeded with the word "thick". This, probably to demonstrate how "tough" he is and what he believes to be his "superior intelligence". Comes across as a tool to me when in this mode. I'm sure he's a decent fella really and I trust he takes this in the spirit it was meant.

LOL and this from the poster whose glare has been known to cause fash to go weak at the knees and members of militant to recant. Trust you take this in the spirit that its meant lone groover

 

[smokedout]

Some of the SWP really are very stupid/naive when t comes to security, if this was a normal Saturday sale they had been going on for umpteen years with no problems then fair enough, but if I understand correctly this was for the end of an ant-fascist cavalcade? In which case it's common sense to scout the area before setting up your stall isn't it? I also find myself wondering if it was accidental they there where both pensioners, maybe it was felt that a couple of pensioners would be safer than younger fitter people. I'm not sure if this makes things better or worse.

was a bit naive, but they are there every saturday more or less

 

[Ranbay]

 

[SpookyFrank]

Unspeakable fucking cowards.

 

[ViolentPanda]

so they should organise self defence squads on the off chance of opportunist one offs? you do realise that doesn't really make sense, don't you?

denying attacks? i'm not saying that hasn't happened but i'd like to see some sort of proof. swp inter branch gossip would make it nigh on impossible.

the only time i remember anything happening when i was a member was a paper sale in bloxwich getting hassled. the next week we turned up in numbers and leafletted along with the sale. i don't think they bothered again.

Thing is, given Swappie history, which elements of the membership are going to risk getting physical and then have the CC denounce them as "squaddists"?

 

[Deareg]

Why? I am not suggesting, btw, that EDL members elsewhere may not occasionally engage in similar opportunism - but what is the evidence to suggest that they'd be capable of initiating an organised/sustained campaign of such attacks?

I don't think it takes a large amount of people, a small determined group can cause a lot of damage.

 

[Deareg]

Unspeakable fucking cowards.

Typical fascists as well.

 

[Deareg]

so they should organise self defence squads on the off chance of opportunist one offs? you do realise that doesn't really make sense, don't you?

denying attacks? i'm not saying that hasn't happened but i'd like to see some sort of proof. swp inter branch gossip would make it nigh on impossible.

the only time i remember anything happening when i was a member was a paper sale in bloxwich getting hassled. the next week we turned up in numbers and leafletted along with the sale. i don't think they bothered again.

No one can provide proof, but it has happened on many occasions.

 

[past caring]

I don't think it takes a large amount of people, a small determined group can cause a lot of damage.

I'd say that you'd need to add commitment, organisational ability and a reasonable degree of intelligence/ability to plan. But that's by the by - so far, they've not even shown much by way of determination.