Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[isvicthere?]

One thing that I think should be stressed more than it has been: given that the main animus of these thugs is a hatred of immigrants and their offspring, why do they hero worship "Tommy Robinson" (Yaxley-Lennon) who himself is the son of an immigrant?

 

[BigMoaner]

Worst I witnessed, was a bunch of clean cut lads in Ireland jerseys infiltrate the crowd at a Spiral Tribe rave back in the 90s in the Dublin mountains.

A lot of whistles started blowing at them

A mate and i sat in our car in Brixton got mistaken by some local chaps as undecovers. Tapped on our window. “Who you watching?”.

 

[A380]

i think it's to do with liability around riot compensation - namely, the authorities do not want to pay

This ^^^ If a riot is declared the PCC (used to be the Police Authority) is presumed liable for any damages. Apparently it was part of the politicing to get some Police funding act or other through.

Insurance companies often push to say something was a riot as it makes it easier for them to get off the hook for paying. When an immigration centre was burned down there were years of litigation by the private sector operators to get it called a riot and make the local old bill pay, even though the fire started whilst the same company's management team were preventing the police getting on the site and trying (failing) to manage the disorder themselves.

I think they lost in the end.

 

[andysays]

Just had news of this through TU channels

Barnet Stand Up to Racism supported by local Trade Unions have called a counter demonstration in North Finchley Wednesday evening and have called for support from anti-racists across North London.

 

[emanymton]

Then they should be given every assistance to martyr themselves for as long as possible.

I think it's bollocks anyway. It's like a last bit of totally sterile defiance as someone gets sent down

"We're martyrs!" but in reality their pants are full of shit and nobody really thinks that.

Most of them will be blubbering about some recent minor set back and how they had only been walking past anyone, honest guv. All in an attempt to get a lesser sentence, which will probably work.

 

[Lotte]

One thing that I think should be stressed more than it has been: given that the main animus of these thugs is a hatred of immigrants and their offspring, why do they hero worship "Tommy Robinson" (Yaxley-Lennon) who himself is the son of an immigrant?

Because he's white and not Muslim.

 

[Griff]

Haven't been through the whole thread, so not sure if this brilliant riot clip has been posted.

 

[Weller]

Been catching up on some of the linked videos and the amount of very young children present some on shoulders chanting along with parents on the frontline is very disturbing even at the attempt to burn the hotel down where there were fires and both sides were being hit with bricks and all sorts of missiles even fire extinguishers from inside the hotel

 

[ddraig]

People were there with whole families watching

 

[lengualo]

No, they said they personally would ban it in the UK as long as Musk was the owner.

That's all kinds of specific conditions there, that you are missing in your recollection of what he said. You've boiled it down to "urban is shockingly not the anarchists haven I thought it was" and shouted at clouds banning social media, like that genie is ever going back in the bottle, when in fact one person has said they personally would rather Musk wasn't the owner of the platform. I agree with their assessment.

Why don't you?

Actually, I did mention the potential of banning it and Im not entirely adverse to the idea. But, I'd take fining them until they started moderating properly. And also in the event of a ban, on the belief that shareholders and advertiser influence would instigate change.

As someone on the centre left, Im surprised at anarchists defending a multi-billion dollar foreign corporation who are launching an attack on everything civil rights related though.

 

[RevolutionSound]

People were there with whole families watching

Should keep social services busy

 

[andysays]

Actually, I did mention the potential of banning it and Im not entirely adverse to the idea. But, I'd take fining them until they started moderating properly. And also in the event if a ban on the belief that shareholders and advertiser influence would instigate change.

As someone on the centre left, Im surprised at anarchists defending a multi-billion dollar foreign corporation who are launching an attack on everything civil rights related though.

I'm not sure anyone is defending Musk/Twitter.

What people are arguing is that calling for Twitter to be banned is likely to be both ineffective and counterproductive.

 

[Pickman's model]

Actually, I did mention the potential of banning it and Im not entirely adverse to the idea. But, I'd take fining them until they started moderating properly. And also in the event if a ban on the belief that shareholders and advertiser influence would instigate change.

As someone on the centre left, Im surprised at anarchists defending a multi-billion dollar foreign corporation who are launching an attack on everything civil rights related though.

the thing about the centre-left is they see state action on symptoms as a solution for the problem

 

[lengualo]

There are some ,who like 'anti Tory' women who swear a bit and use the word cockwomble and there are others who object to a landlord running a financial business on social media platforms selling videos of an 'anti tory ' woman who swears a bit and uses the word 'cockwomble'. Some might think that its ok for an 'anti-Tory' woman to indulge in conspiracy theories about 9/11 and to have photographs of her and a mate with Hitler moustaches and T shirt with I love Hitler 'as a joke' at a music festival and others don't. All a matter of what anti tory means for middle-aged centrist blokes, which is her main audience, I suppose. She's a grifter which some people try and ignore.

I see, now Im not aware of any of this because I dont follow YT drama and it was only recently that she came on my radar.

 

[CNT36]

Yes, some of the stuff I'm seeing isn't anti-fascist, it's anti working class. It is othering the poor and the deprived and it's sneering at the poorest communities. It needs to stop and it needs calling out, so good on you.

Just sat in a bookshop and flicked through former poster M.testa's ( tried to tag) book, which seems a good read, though it reminded me how common these attitudes have been here in the past. I'm probably not innocent tbh. These fuckers inspire a lot of anger.

 

[Dystopiary]

Actually, I did mention the potential of banning it and Im not entirely adverse to the idea. But, I'd take fining them until they started moderating properly. And also in the event if a ban on the belief that shareholders and advertiser influence would instigate change.

As someone on the centre left, Im surprised at anarchists defending a multi-billion dollar foreign corporation who are launching an attack on everything civil rights related though.

I'm not sure anyone is defending Musk/Twitter.

What people are arguing is that calling for Twitter to be banned is likely to be both ineffective and counterproductive.

YouSir has started a thread on the subject to keep this one on topic, here: Social Media and Current Events

 

[skyscraper101]

It's gone mental in Belfast last night. From the Graun:

The Belfast thing interests me as this violence seems to be otherwise mainly confined to England.

Are these people rioting mainly loyalists targeting immigrants under the same 'take our country back' (i.e. Britain) or is there more to it? I know there have been reports of knobbers coming up from Dublin and I'm sure there are a fair amount of nationalists who share the sentiment but are these just fringe twats up for the violence, or is there more consensus across the community than that? I always had Belfast down as pretty white compared to English cities and put violence down to sectarianism, but perhaps I'm missing something?

 

[Rob Ray]

Im surprised at anarchists defending a multi-billion dollar foreign corporation who are launching an attack on everything civil rights related though.

We aren't. We're defending our own rights against an extension of State power. The nominal target is immaterial.

 

[lengualo]

YouSir has started a thread on the subject to keep this one on topic, here: Social Media and Current Events

Sorry, I just played catch up and replied. Didnt know thr thread was split.

the thing about the centre-left is they see state action on symptoms as a solution for the problem

Hmm, thats a whole other discussion too. I think in the current environment thay its more important that progressives stand together rather than in-fight over left divisions over economic policy. I dont think it helps. But thats off topic.

 

[lengualo]

We aren't. We're defending our own rights against an extension of State power. The nominal target is immaterial.

OK, fair enough. I think SM needs to be held to account, but maybe for the other thread later when Ive finished work.

 

[Pickman's model]

Hmm, thats a whole other discussion too. I think in the current environment thay its more important that progressives stand together rather than in-fight over left divisions over economic policy. I dont think it helps. But thats off topic.

I look forward to seeing you on the streets then

 

[where to]

The Belfast thing interests me as this violence seems to be otherwise mainly confined to England.

Are these people rioting mainly loyalists targeting immigrants under the same 'take our country back' (i.e. Britain) or is there more to it? I know there have been reports of knobbers coming up from Dublin and I'm sure there are a fair amount of nationalists who share the sentiment but are these just fringe twats up for the violence, is there more consensus across the community than that?

The incidents in Belfast seem confined to one area, Sandy Hill, which is a loyalist area closer to the city centre. The main road on the edge of the area seems quite diverse, maybe because it's close to town. I'm not sure if that is the driver, or whether it's more to do with the particular loyalists prevalent in the area. This was also the area racists from Dublin had visited and had been warmly welcomed by all accounts.

I noticed one of the premises attacked had been left with a Union Bears (Glasgow Rangers ultras group) sticker.

 

[Whagwan]

We protected our community from a far right mob, here's what happened

As fascists descended on Bristol, hundreds of community members gathered to protect a local hotel housing asylum seekers.

www.huckmag.com

 

[Elpenor]

The incidents in Belfast seem confined to one area, Sandy Hill, which is a loyalist area closer to the city centre. The main road on the edge of the area seems quite diverse, maybe because it's close to town. I'm not sure if that is the driver, or whether it's more to do with the particular loyalists prevalent in the area. This was also the area racists from Dublin had visited and had been warmly welcomed by all accounts.

I noticed one of the premises attacked had been left with a Union Bears (Glasgow Rangers ultras group) sticker.

Think you may mean Sandy Row

 

[pbsmooth]

Unbelievable

 

[Wilf]

The targets are out there regardless of a list compiled by someone who has googled "immigration help". Calling for a pogrom in the middle of a large city is one thing. Saying there are 27 different targets all to hit on the same night at the same time when you can barely get 50 people out in some small towns?

Ok. We'll see.

I suspect you are right, almost certainly so, but it's worrying that we haven't got more definitive information on what is real/disinformation. I suspect both journalists and cops will have infiltrated some of the fash online discussion groups/Telegram, but for the moment they seem to be reasonably successful at keeping the chats to themselves.

 

[skyscraper101]

The incidents in Belfast seem confined to one area, Sandy Hill, which is a loyalist area closer to the city centre. The main road on the edge of the area seems quite diverse, maybe because it's close to town. I'm not sure if that is the driver, or whether it's more to do with the particular loyalists prevalent in the area. This was also the area racists from Dublin had visited and had been warmly welcomed by all accounts.

I noticed one of the premises attacked had been left with a Union Bears (Glasgow Rangers ultras group) sticker.

It is weird. I had assumed the government wasn't sending many asylum seekers to hotels in Belfast or even that it was a particularly diverse city at all compared to most major English cities. So perhaps this is less to do with immigration in Belfast and more to do with a disaffected community and the opportunity to riot this has provided. I could be wrong of course.

 

[where to]

Think you may mean Sandy Row

You're quite right

 

[Wilf]

Well said, and a useful counter to the casual classism displayed by a few posters/ memes shared in this thread.

We may despise the racism and hated of their chosen political beliefs, but the rioters do predominantly look like members of our class that have suffered multiple deprivations including health and education.

This, 100%. And whilst this isn't necessarily the moment for theorising and emphasising context, we should never forget the factors that have brought us to this point. Neoliberalism, the abandonment of whole communities by the political class, the destruction of public services. I'll laugh at individual fuckwits getting bricked in the bollocks or looting a shop without masking themselves, but this doesn't reduce itself down to 'thick' people. And never forget, there's a failure of the left in there as well.

 

[ska invita]

Situation in Ireland has become dangerous well before this week....becoming a dominant point of "conversation" in national media etc....theres a seperate thread about it here:

Ireland - newcomers and the far right

Oughterard residents are concerned over a former hotel that may be turned into a direct provision centre. It's a small town and the oppositions to the place are a mix of nimbyism, worries about the impact it will have on the town and outright bigotry. TD Noel Grealish has come out calling...

www.urban75.net

leading to some otherwise contradictory meeting of minds between different flavours of Irish bigots