Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[lengualo]

Well it's a question, are you a public schoolboy? And/or what did your dad do for a living?

Well this isnt classist at all. Broad social representation in government is important, so is mobility.

Remember, when you do this you are by extension telling working class people to know their place, and for marginalised and oppressed peoples to know their place.

 

[andysays]

The recent trials and ridicule of the rioting perps is a modern-day version of the stocks and pillory.

As much as anything, the ridicule is a result of so many of them appearing to be caught because of their own stupidity.

It's richly deserved in these cases, but we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that everyone involved is equally stupid.

 

[Hollis]

My better self does think there's something slightly Medieval about this public shaming of rioters.

On the other hand I'm desperate to know how long this spod gets sent down for.
'Sobbing' KBB company director accused of taking part in riots

 

[Serge Forward]

Because they're being mocked and ridiculed. No reason why they shouldn't be.

Yeah but you can't chuck rotten tomatoes at a newspaper or a screen

 

[Pickman's model]

My better self does think there's something slightly Medieval about this public shaming of rioters.

On the other hand I'm desperate to know how long this spod gets sent down for.
'Sobbing' KBB company director accused of taking part in riots

There's nothing medieval about it, look at pillories etc in enlightenment England of the c18. Until less than a century ago there were stocks out St Leonard, Shoreditch - they're in the crypt there now

 

[Hollis]

The recent trials and ridicule of the rioting perps is a modern-day version of the stocks and pillory.

There is a genuine problem with rehabilitation.. these days any past crimes/scandals can be instantly googled and follow you around for life. I guess it's the argument re "right to be forgotten"..

 

[Pickman's model]

There is a genuine problem with rehabilitation.. these days any past crimes/scandals can be instantly googled and follow you around for life. I guess it's the argument re "right to be forgotten"..

Well they can be searched for but it's not always easy to find. Two examples - child sexual abuse in the family may not be reported as revealing the culprit reveals the victim; and someone who was a regular where I used to work got jailed during the pandemic, my informant didn't know why and despite a careful search I wasn't able to find out. Sure, in these public cases which are given wide publicity it's a piece of piss. Other times it's much harder.

 

[hitmouse]

My better self does think there's something slightly Medieval about this public shaming of rioters.

On the other hand I'm desperate to know how long this spod gets sent down for.
'Sobbing' KBB company director accused of taking part in riots

Not an area that the kitchen, bedroom and bathroom review normally gets to cover, I suppose.

 

[Rob Ray]

Well this isnt classist at all. Broad social representation in government is important, so is mobility.

Remember, when you do this you are by extension telling working class people to know their place, and for marginalised and oppressed peoples to know their place.

Ah lean-in politics, where we laud Thatcher for breaking trade unionism as a lower middle class woman, Suella Braverman as the daughter of working class immigrants shitting on working class immigrants, etc. And of course our very own "son of a toolmaker" Prime Minister.

If only there were some other method for the working class to organise and impose itself than sending individuals to be thoroughly institutionalised in the halls of the ruling class while living far removed from their origins and surrounded by the voices of the powerful eh. If only.

 

[MickiQ]

I wonder if the fash might attempt a strategy of having so many commit their crimes in plain sight they overwhelm the prison system and make custodial sentences less likely ...

Nah that implies a degree of organisation and forward planning that there is no evidence for. This is just a lot of angry fuckwits who got swept up in the moment and a lot of them are realising that the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[Lotte]

If it was about his uniform she would have called him a 'blue cunt'. Pathetic excuse.

 

[lengualo]

Ah lean-in politics, where we laud Thatcher for breaking trade unionism as a lower middle class woman, Suella Braverman as the daughter of working class immigrants shitting on working class immigrants, etc. And of course our very own "son of a toolmaker" Prime Minister.

If only there were some other method for the working class to organise and impose itself than sending individuals to be thoroughly institutionalised in the halls of the ruling class while living far removed from their origins and surrounded by the voices of the powerful eh. If only.

Hmm, off topic but I'll bite.

My SO is from a country who were oppressed through colonialism, and victims of a genocide against their peoples. Millions died during their war of independence to free themselves from colonialism and that ruling class.

She, like most in her country, is mixed (has mixed indiginous heritage). They were not benefactors of colonialism. She was privately educated in her childhood, but went to a public uni.


Please, do not insult people who break out of the class system and the affects of colonial oppression. Pointing to the right wing out there proves nothing, and my point still stands.

Your examples of right wingers who were poor or POC mean nothing. All countries and cultures have a left and right wing.

But, your post is basically telling people like my SO that they should have stayed as poor people. Please dont do this.

 

[Pickman's model]

Hmm, off topic but I'll bite.

My SO is from a country who were oppressed through colonialism, and victims of a genocide against their peoples. Millions died during their war of independence to free themselves from colonialism and that ruling class.

She, like most in her country, is a Mestizo (has mixed indiginous heritage). They were not benefactors of colonialism. She was privately educated in her childhood, but went to a public uni.


Please, do not insult people who break out of the class system and the affects of colonial oppression. Pointing to the right wing out there proves nothing, and my point still stands.

Your examples of right wingers who were poor or POC mean nothing. All countries and cultures have a left and right wing.

But, your post is basically telling people like my SO that they should have stayed as poor people. Please dont do this.

No one breaks out of the class system

 

[maomao]

If it was about his uniform she would have called him a 'blue cunt'. Pathetic excuse.

In fact most modern UK police uniforms are black. The Met were the last to change apparently.

 

[lengualo]

No one breaks out of the class system

No, they dont. Thats actually a very, very good point and speaks to some of my irritation. Good catch, thanks.

 

[Rob Ray]

Hmm, off topic but I'll bite.

My SO is from a country who were oppressed through colonialism, and victims of a genocide against their peoples. Millions died during their war of independence to free themselves from colonialism and that ruling class.

She, like most in her country, is a Mestizo (has mixed indiginous heritage). They were not benefactors of colonialism. She was privately educated in her childhood, but went to a public uni.


Please, do not insult people who break out of the class system and the affects of colonial oppression. Pointing to the right wing out there proves nothing, and my point still stands.

Your examples of right wingers who were poor or POC mean nothing. All countries and cultures have a left and right wing.

But, your post is basically telling people like my SO that they should have stayed as poor people. Please dont do this.

I'm not "insulting people who break out the class system", nor am I suggesting your partner should live in penury. I am outlining the problem with expecting political change to come through lean-in waffle.

Jfc this shit is why I hate your brand of smug liberalism, you can't help but be thoroughly bad faith.

 

[Rimbaud]

Hmm, off topic but I'll bite.

My SO is from a country who were oppressed through colonialism, and victims of a genocide against their peoples. Millions died during their war of independence to free themselves from colonialism and that ruling class.

She, like most in her country, is a Mestizo (has mixed indiginous heritage). They were not benefactors of colonialism. She was privately educated in her childhood, but went to a public uni.


Please, do not insult people who break out of the class system and the affects of colonial oppression. Pointing to the right wing out there proves nothing, and my point still stands.

Your examples of right wingers who were poor or POC mean nothing. All countries and cultures have a left and right wing.

But, your post is basically telling people like my SO that they should have stayed as poor people. Please dont do this.

He wasn't saying that at all.

But it's clearly daft to judge politicians by their identity and background rather than on their policies and what they do. Thatcher was not from an upper class background but her election was hardly a victory for the proles.

 

[Serge Forward]

Ah lean-in politics, where we laud Thatcher for breaking trade unionism as a lower middle class woman, Suella Braverman as the daughter of working class immigrants shitting on working class immigrants, etc. And of course our very own "son of a toolmaker" Prime Minister.

If only there were some other method for the working class to organise and impose itself than sending individuals to be thoroughly institutionalised in the halls of the ruling class while living far removed from their origins and surrounded by the voices of the powerful eh. If only.

Or not the rise above your class approach but rise with you class!

 

[Rob Ray]

It's the great ideological gap, isn't it. Individualism can only fetishise the success of a minority of individuals in "dodging" the fate laid down for them by their class, blithely waving the hand about everyone else.

 

[lengualo]

I'm not "insulting people who break out the class system", nor am I suggesting your partner should live in penury. I am outlining the problem with expecting political change to come through lean-in waffle.

Jfc this shit is why I hate your brand of smug liberalism, you can't help but be thoroughly bad faith.

No its not smug liberalism and it isnt bad faith. Its candid. Try listening.

When someone pulls down someone from a marginalised background for being privately educated you are siging to a right wing tune.

If someone from a marginalised background is right wing, its because they are right wing. Not because they were privately educated.

What I'd like you to understand is that my GF has been referred to as uppity, and that comes from the same place. She can get it from both ends on this side of the world and thats incredibly frustrating.

You arent a good progressive or working class because you have been privately educated and have mobility, but you arent middle class because you dont have the right heritage to be so.

Surely its not hard to understand the frustration with that?

 

[Rob Ray]

Try listening.

Rich coming from mr "oh you disagree with me, you must be insulting working class winners." And you're still at it.

 

[lengualo]

Rich come from mr "oh you disagree with me, you must be insulting working class winners."

No, I pulled up a poster who was demanding to know someones educational background, then got a reply about right ring POC. Context.

 

[Serge Forward]

This seems to be getting into some weird notion of class based on school, parents, etc, rather than social and economic power and one's connection to ownership or control of the means of production.

 

[Rob Ray]

Fuck me it's like talking to a brick wall over here. Imagine this one reading Marx and just freaking out that the guy's not high-fiving Bootstrap Bill.


(Anyway I've diverted the thread enough, will simmer down).

 

[bellaozzydog]

Part 2, I'm pretty upset, met a couple about 3 months ago at the same pub and have been having a right laugh, but I was told by one of them tonight that I'm too political (I am), eta to add not in a rude or confrontational way, and that although we are mates, at least one of the couple, is the polar opposite to me (I'm a lefty and just want everyone to get on and help each other, but that doesn't seem in vogue around here).

I hate it, I'm feeling more and more isolated and silenced.

Back from pub sorry if that doesnt make much sense, will edit in the morning if need be.

I went to a lifetime friends BBQ last month. I keep a lid on my politics generally but it seemed like all my “self made” well off friends were just bubbling under with shit vaguely right wing talking points. Alcohol eventually unleashed these and they all had a position to challenge me on, using their own (very narrow ) anecdotal experience to back up their points.

Positions which justified their current economic status and vilified everyone else

I’m at the point where I just briefly interrogate their sources, “where did you read that, in a book or on the internet” bottom line is none of them read books, have a basic understanding of politics, economics, or anything they are railing against…

And these are people who run successful businesses, lawyers, Doctors, Tradesmen, teachers

We are fooked as a country.


Eta: interestingly they were all talking about battling mental illness, anxiety, depression too much drinking etc
Mark Fisher/Capitalist Realism came to mind, but I sensed that would have lost the crowd

 

[zedr]

This book is worth a look for anyone wanting a deep dive on the shape of this stuff nowadays:

Post-Internet Far Right

The far right has changed. Since the rise of the internet, it has scattered, diversified, and stuck itself back together. The internet has facilitated these tendencies, filtering and contorting familiar forms of activity and ideology, and pushed far-right groups to adapt, causing the decline of...

issuu.com

Particularly these chapters:

The Swarm and The Influencer - Issuu

Before the internet, fascists were mostly organised into parties: hierarchical organisations with rigid command structures, a clearly delineated membership and a tendency towards a consistent ideological line, disseminated by the leadership to the rank and file. By 2010, the fascist party, long...

issuu.com

The Street - Issuu

Fascism has always extolled action. Specifically, it has idealised a vitality that is demonstrated in public space (although, like any radical ideology, it has also dabbled in secrecy). This action is necessarily carried out by real bodies in conflict with the forces that would constrain them...

issuu.com

Just got round to reading these two chapters. Really interesting and think I'll probably carry on with the rest of the book.

The focus on Tommy Robinson ans the discission of authenticity is particularly interesting. Hadn't really considered the difference in how his supporters view his authenticity as opposed to his detractors. Makes sense why lots of the personal criticisms of him or calling him SYL aren't necessarily as effective with his fans as ppl might think.

 

[lengualo]

Fuck me it's like talking to a brick wall over here. Imagine this one reading Marx and just freaking out that the guy's not high-fiving Bootstrap Bill.


(Anyway I've diverted the thread enough, will simmer down).

Yeah, so it appears that its deemed appropriate to question people on their educational background and parents jobs here? And to do so without acknowledgement of the consequences of doing so. Noted.

And yeah, OT so I'll shut up.

 

[Rob Ray]

Yeah, so it appears that its deemed appropriate to question people on their educational background and parents jobs here? And to do so without acknowledgement of the consequences of doing so. Noted.

And yeah, OT so I'll shut up.

Seriously fuck off with the rewriting of what I'm saying eh? Okay now I'm done.

 

[Spymaster]

Yeah, so it appears that its deemed appropriate to question people on their educational background and parents jobs here? And to do so without acknowledgement of the consequences of doing so. Noted.

No it isn't.

Ignore Rob Ray. He's a knob.

 

[lengualo]

Seriously fuck off with the rewriting of what I'm saying eh? Okay now I'm done.

Serious last post, but go back and re-read your first reply to me.

You put a whole lot of words in my mouth, hence why I pulled you up in the manner I did.

You listed a bunch of right wing POC MPs, in a post colonial country there is an idea of "whiteness" and supremacy, they are broadly symptom of that.

Anyway, end.