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Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

Wilf said:
Yes, if this turns out to be a turning point, it will be entirely about the mass turn outs - about the relatively small numbers who went out and put themselves on the line over the last week and the massive numbers last night (and, I expect, at the weekend). There's no denying that the police have been in a direct battle with the fash, sustaining injuries, for sure. Equally, things could have got a lot uglier without them. But without the mass turnouts this would have carried on night after night with them getting bolder and bolder.. Plus it would have carried on with the fash claiming a victimhood, the 'voice of the people', two tier policing and the rest. With thousands out against them, all of that dribbles away.
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Even the police have been saying this. Hearing Starmer on the radio just now, he didn't mention them, funnily enough. It was ALL about the police.
 
Wilf said:
Suppose we'll have to see where this goes next. The Fash themselves almost certainly don't know given that the Southport murders gave them an unexpected opportunity which they were just getting used to when the centre left got numbers out last night. For the weekend, massive turnouts in the cities will be great though, in some ways, I'd rather see smaller local anti-fash efforts and the chance of building something sustainable. Because the fash aint going away.
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One place it won't be going next is another list of places that they have no intention of turning up at. Either massive over confidence on their part or an attempt to draw communities onto the street and into conflict with the cops. Either way it was a disaster for them and has shattered their momentum.

I predict a retreat online. As Pickmans suggests that may also involve trying a few confidence boosters where they know they have numbers but their current surge is over and they know it.

I was raging yesterday about the media and twitter idiots sharing the details of the 'never going to happen' fash mobilisations fearing it was doing their work for them. As it turn out they did a sterling job!
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Even the police have been saying this. Hearing Starmer on the radio just now, he didn't mention them, funnily enough. It was ALL about the police.
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Yeah, thats a bit tone deaf when the police have thanked everyone who turned out peacefully yesterday because it sent a powerful message to the thugs and their sympathisers who have been trashing our cities for the past week.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Even the police have been saying this. Hearing Starmer on the radio just now, he didn't mention them, funnily enough. It was ALL about the police.
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As well as his truly shit politics overall, I'll bet there's a little bit of his weasel brain that sees an overlap between anti-fascists and pro-Palestine protests. The Sarah Sackman stuff. I mean, Starmer would struggle to even come out with gritted teeth praise for 'decent people' coming out on the streets, but that kind of linkage means its a no-no.

There's actually a massive opportunity for the soft left here, not that of course Starmer is part of any kind of left. Local councils putting on massive Rock Against Racism style 'unity' gigs as an example. Something to change the narrative around migrants. That's not my politics at all and we need something much more profound to combat neoliberalism and what it has done to our communities. But it's a measure of where the soft/liberal left is at that I don't even see them making what would be easy wins.

Edit to clarify, unity gigs and the rest probably have a feel good factor, a bit like last night really. However I don't think they make the deep seated changes that get to why significant numbers of people, who have been fucked over for decades, feel.... fucked over. Without that deeper change, by people in their own communities, liberal interventions can be counter productive and increase the longer term gap between people who might not be actually rioting, but are open to racist narratives.
 
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Pickman's model said:
People in eg Walthamstow and finchley can turn out to counter anticipated incursions but are unlikely to then travel to where one occurs. If I was a fascist I'd be looking to rebuild with mobilisations in more sympathetic places like bermondsey, welling or Dartford before attempting something on a similar scale again.
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I know lots of people travelled TO Walthamstow and Finchley who dont live there, but agree, South East London proper (Eltham/Bexley etc) wouldve been very different...and on a weekend too
 
Wilf said:
As well as his truly shit politics overall, I'll bet there's a little bit of his weasel brain that sees an overlap between anti-fascists and pro-Palestine protests. The Sarah Sackman stuff. I mean, Starmer would struggle to even come out with gritted teeth praise for 'decent people' coming out on the streets, but that kind of linkage means its a no-no.

There's actually a massive opportunity for the soft left here, not that of course Starmer is part of any kind of left. Local councils putting on massive Rock Against Racism style 'unity' gigs as an example. Something to change the narrative around migrants. That's not my politics at all and we need something much more profound to combat neoliberalism and what it has done to our communities. But it's a measure of where the soft/liberal left is at that I don't even see them making what would be easy wins.
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the thing is shammer's been badly shaken and needs to reinforce the authority of the state. paying any regard to the role of communities risks undermining the narrative he wants to present of the brave bobbies saving the day and tracking down perpetrators.
 
ska invita said:
I know lots of people travelled TO Walthamstow and Finchley who dont live there, but agree, South East London proper (Eltham/Bexley etc) wouldve been very different...and on a weekend too
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yeh people would go to finchley or walthamstow. but would they travel further from there, if an incursion's in say edmonton or eltham? not in such large numbers.
 
Wilf said:
As well as his truly shit politics overall, I'll bet there's a little bit of his weasel brain that sees an overlap between anti-fascists and pro-Palestine protests
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to spell that one out he and a lot of lab MP's viewed the people coming out in defense of their communities as rabble, presumptuous and morally dubious. Goes beyond his law and order background into Labour politics in general. I think both siding Cable Street was mentioned pages ago, The Guardian did the same thing at the time.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Even the police have been saying this. Hearing Starmer on the radio just now, he didn't mention them, funnily enough. It was ALL about the police.
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It's the Labour way. For decades (with slight exceptions during the Corbyn phase) the Labour Party machine has been incredibly hostile to anything remotely looking like 'extra-party non-parliamentary activity'. The proper channels have always been within the Labour Party and the Labour Party alone. Anything else is considered suspect. So, for someone of Starmer's calibre, the control freakery will only go into overdrive and any independent anti-racist and anti-fascist activity will get nary a mention beyond 'both sides' crap.
 
ska invita said:
and for being in the pub all day (though its cooler up north - 30degrees in London)

has anyone got that list of towns earmarked this weekend? I cant find it now. I remember Hull was on it
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London, Birmingham, Leeds, Grasmere, Carlisle...

Sorry. :oops:
 
ska invita said:
and for being in the pub all day (though its cooler up north - 30degrees in London)

has anyone got that list of towns earmarked this weekend? I cant find it now. I remember Hull was on it
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This is the most comprehensive list I've found:

standuptoracism.org.uk

Stand Up to Racism - Stand Up to Racism

Latest reports from Aberdeen to Aldershot – here’s some of the places where Stand Up to Racism is opposing the Below are some reports from around
standuptoracism.org.uk standuptoracism.org.uk
 
Serge Forward said:
It's the Labour way. For decades (with slight exceptions during the Corbyn phase) the Labour Party machine has been incredibly hostile to anything remotely looking like 'extra-party non-parliamentary activity'. The proper channels have always been within the Labour Party and the Labour Party alone. Anything else is considered suspect. So, for someone of Starmer's calibre, the control freakery will only go into overdrive and any independent anti-racist and anti-fascist activity will get nary a mention beyond 'both sides' crap.
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Exactly this.
 
as said upthread, and i don't really condone it either, got a feeling that these folk are going to get one hell of a "welcome" in prison.
 
Dystopiary said:
It's not some clumsy oversight; Starmer hates the left.
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Yes, but he probably feels the need to be a bit more cautious in what he says.

He praises it today then tomorrow something kicks of and the blame is paced with counter protesters. That will be held against him in a a way it wouldn't be for the likes of the mail. They can flip position a lot easier.
 
More of the loons jailed this morning.

Couple went to bingo then joined riot​

A couple who joined in riots in Hartlepool after an afternoon bingo session have been jailed.
Steven Mailen, 54, and his partner Ryan Sheers, 29, both pleaded guilty to violent disorder after 200 people gathered in the city on 31 July.
Jailing them for two years and two months each at Teesside Crown Court, the judge said the pair were "at the very forefront of the mob" and tried to push through a police cordon.
Mailen, a former postmaster and school governor, was described as "one of the main instigators" of the large-scale disturbance.
Sheers, formerly a McDonald's worker, was bitten on the hip by a police dog during the incident.
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Rioter at 'front of baying mob' and pensioner, 69, jailed for 32 months​

Judge Andrew Menary KC hands down sentencing on two rioters at Liverpool Crown Court.
John O'Malley, 43, is jailed for 32 months for violent disorder in Southport.
"You were at the front of what was essentially a baying mob," the judge said moments ago during his sentencing remarks. "You were at the front and participating enthusiastically," he said.
William Morgan, 69, is also sentenced to 32 months after pleading guilty to violent disorder and possession of an offensive weapon in Liverpool.
Morgan stands with his head bowed before nodding at the judge when receiving his sentence, while O'Malley mutters something inaudible as he leaves the dock.
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"Went to bingo, then joined riot", is not a headline I ever expected to read. :D
 
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