England fans: the racism and the violence

[editor]

It's essentially the same argument isn't it?

It's not really that bad it's mainly Russian trolls hacking lots of twitter accounts.

Just seems like yet more brushing it under the carpet and excuse making to me.

It's clearly a minority of English fans, but it's not something that can be downplayed:

.

As a result, Ipsos MORI conducted a poll survey amongst 783 football fans in England on June 8th and 9th as part of a wider survey of 2,083 Britons aged 16-75.

They asked supporters about their views on the Three Lions taking the knee before their Euro 2020 games, and whether they support the action.


Their key findings included:

• However, three in ten (30%) football fans in England would support fans choosing to boo the team for taking the knee at the Euros. Although half (51%) oppose fans booing the knee.
  
  
  
  

  Almost half of England fans support the Three Lions taking a knee

  England announced they’d continue to take a knee before their Euro 2020 games, with a survey showing only 48 percent agree to it

  www.leicestermercury.co.uk

And at Wembley, they've taken to playing loud music to cover up the boos:

The FA have told stadium staff at Wembley to play loud music until after England matches kick off to drown out fans who continue to boo players taking the knee before the match begins.

FA taking new measures to drown out boos when England stars take knee

A minority of Three Lions fans have continued to boo their players taking a knee ahead of kicking off their games, with Wembley stadium staff now instructed to drown out the noise

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Smokeandsteam]

It jusy seems like an attempt to downplay it to me. I'm sure some posts do come from malicious actors but doing this merry dance of 'oh it's not that bad' everytime cunts act like cunts at or around a football match is unhelpful.

But nobody on here is saying that. Certainly not in respect of the social media messages.

 

[ruffneck23]

 

[Yossarian]

 

[Pickman's model]

perhaps none of the squad wanted to meet the fat pig currently residing in number ten

 

[ruffneck23]

perhaps none of the squad wanted to meet the fat pig currently residing in number ten

I was thinking , they have been asked but told them to fuck off already.

 

[ruffneck23]

Quite...

 

[Pickman's model]

So are you going to dodge this littlebabyjesus ? Seeing as you've been answering other posts since

he turns a nelsonian eye on things he doesn't want to see. sometimes for many years.

 

[two sheds]

It's clearly a minority of English fans, but it's not something that can be downplayed:

.




And at Wembley, they've taken to playing loud music to cover up the boos:

FA taking new measures to drown out boos when England stars take knee

A minority of Three Lions fans have continued to boo their players taking a knee ahead of kicking off their games, with Wembley stadium staff now instructed to drown out the noise

www.mirror.co.uk

I prefer the response of cheering and clapping as on the top video.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Quite...

This, every single letter of it.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

But nobody on here is saying that. Certainly not in respect of the social media messages.

Maybe not but it's just so fucking tedious every time England twats smash up a market town in Belgium, or chuck pub chairs at each other, or chant racist/homohobic bollocks etc etc it's the same 'oh but it's only a minority' wank every single time.

Yeah it is only a minority but it's a persistent loud one that seems to grow every time. Coming off the back of Brexit bollocks, this monstrously excruciating bullshit culture war, a pandemic and a nakedly corrupt, lying and hopelessly inept tory government just makes it feel so much worse to me.

 

[existentialist]

This, ever single letter of it.

He's always a bit impassioned, but that one was...well, I don't think it was just a performance.

 

[Dystopiary]

I think you're avoiding the issue. Of course racism isn't unique to Britain, but we're talking about Britain.

Aside from the self aggrandising publicist tone of their tweet, I don't really disagree with (another) estate agent falling from grace. What it means to be suspended (is he on full pay?) is another matter.

As a working class type I can't say I'm overly thrilled with people losing jobs, but I've no sympathy for racists. You could always have chosen a different path.

The whole thing is ugly and our culture is basically shit

England, specifically.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

He's always a bit impassioned, but that one was...well, I don't think it was just a performance.

Indeed, I don't think his Matt Hancock one was a performance either.

 

[brogdale]

Might be me having a grumpy day, but I'm finding the Pie schtick wearing very thin now, and much of the early part of that piece reminds me of this:

 

[Steel Icarus]

Cretins and apes. Literally what he said. Not like me with my suit and my ISAs

 

[Sasaferrato]

Same thing with Wales fans from what I know. Doesn't stop Cardiff City from having some of the worst racist cunt fans in the country. But it's just not the culture of following the national team.

England has a problem in this regard that Scotland/Wales don't have. That's long been true and still is true. I don't know how you change it. I'm not sure it's a thing you can change actively. It is something that hopefully dies out over decades as the cunts die off and aren't replaced.

The last 24 hours have been thoroughly depressing tbh. I think winning something might have helped. Helped break the spell. It might help show people that winning is nice, but life then goes on. The likes of France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc, aren't different places to live in just because they've won a bunch of football trophies.

I'm sure Mark Walters took great comfort from that as he was dodging the bananas.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm sure Mark Walters took great comfort from that as he was dodging the bananas.

To be clear, I was talking about the support for the national team. Part of the point was that I wasn't saying that things are somehow magically better in Scotland and Wales, and problems at club level show that. Just that the particular cultures of the supports for their national teams specifically are different, attract different people.

I don't think anyone should take comfort from any of this.

 

[RainbowTown]

Maybe Ireland fans have the answer

 

[editor]

To be clear, I was talking about the support for the national team. Part of the point was that I wasn't saying that things are somehow magically better in Scotland and Wales, and problems at club level show that. Just that the particular cultures of the supports for their national teams specifically are different, attract different people.

I don't think anyone should take comfort from any of this.

To be clear, you specifically claimed that "Cardiff has some of the worst racist cunt fans in the country."

Could you now support that damning claim please?

 

[editor]

Maybe Ireland fans have the answer

Wales' fans attracted huge praise too:

Police praise for Wales fans in Bordeaux

The behaviour of Wales supporters in Bordeaux is praised by police while the Eiffel Tower was lit up in Welsh colours after the team's Euro 2016 victory.

www.bbc.co.uk

French media pay tribute to Wales fans as violence mars Euro 2016

The national French paper L'Equipe has paid tribute to the conduct of the 20,000-plus Welshmen in Bordeaux

www.walesonline.co.uk

Take a bow 'outstanding' Wales fans who get UEFA gong

The thousands who made up 'The Red Wall' praised for 'exemplary' behaviour

www.dailypost.co.uk

Every nation has their fair share of wankers supporting them, but England has got a far, far bigger problem than most.

 

[The39thStep]

But nobody on here is saying that. Certainly not in respect of the social media

Let's not let facts get in the way of an argument that says there is some truth in the foreign bots but no truth in peoples accounts being hacked but they are both the same way of sweeping things under the carpet even if no-one is actually sweeping things under the carpet because they are both the same

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Every nation has their fair share of wankers supporting them, but England has got a far, far bigger problem than most.

You sure about that?

The ugly spectre of racism in football on the rise across Europe

The abuse of Raheem Sterling and antisemitic chanting by Chelsea fans are indicative of a wider picture of unacceptable intolerance, as our continent-wide survey reveals

www.theguardian.com

Bulgarian football and its problem with racism

Could Bulgaria's latest football racism scandal change how it deals with the problem?

www.bbc.co.uk

Why Italian football remains racist

Italy’s Serie A league is not a hospitable place for black players, and the country’s football institutions doling out mere slaps on the wrist for racial abuse is leading to the spread of racism in…

www.newframe.com

French police probe racist abuse of football stars on Twitter

French prosecutors have opened an investigation into a wave of racist comments posted on Twitter targeting members of the national football team. England’s footballers have also been subjected to sustained…

www.rfi.fr

German Football for the “Real” Germans

The same mixture of victimization and resentments that drives the electoral successes of far-right parties inflames fan hatred and racism in German football.

www.fairobserver.com

 

[littlebabyjesus]

In summary, it's both a problem of society at large and a problem of football specifically, and certain sectors of football at that.

But this isn't zero-sum - where it thrives in football, it makes matters worse, actively harming society at large as well. 'Football' can't say 'it's society's fault', and neither can 'society' say 'it's football's fault'. Both have to take responsibility.

 

[editor]

You sure about that?

The ugly spectre of racism in football on the rise across Europe

The abuse of Raheem Sterling and antisemitic chanting by Chelsea fans are indicative of a wider picture of unacceptable intolerance, as our continent-wide survey reveals

www.theguardian.com

Bulgarian football and its problem with racism

Could Bulgaria's latest football racism scandal change how it deals with the problem?

www.bbc.co.uk

Why Italian football remains racist

Italy’s Serie A league is not a hospitable place for black players, and the country’s football institutions doling out mere slaps on the wrist for racial abuse is leading to the spread of racism in…

www.newframe.com

French police probe racist abuse of football stars on Twitter

French prosecutors have opened an investigation into a wave of racist comments posted on Twitter targeting members of the national football team. England’s footballers have also been subjected to sustained…

www.rfi.fr

German Football for the “Real” Germans

The same mixture of victimization and resentments that drives the electoral successes of far-right parties inflames fan hatred and racism in German football.

www.fairobserver.com

Yes, in the context of Euro 2020, I am sure that England currently has a bigger problem than most. Some other countries have a racist problem too.

 

[editor]

In summary, it's both a problem of society at large and a problem of football specifically, and certain sectors of football at that.

But this isn't zero-sum - where it thrives in football, it makes matters worse, actively harming society at large as well. 'Football' can't say 'it's society's fault', and neither can 'society' say 'it's football's fault'. Both have to take responsibility.

As should you for posting up wildly inaccurate claims about 'racist cunt fans'.

How does making up such inflammatory claims help the discussion progress?

 

[Spymaster]

It jusy seems like an attempt to downplay it to me. I'm sure some posts do come from malicious actors but doing this merry dance of 'oh it's not that bad' everytime cunts act like cunts at or around a football match is unhelpful.

What's all this 'downplaying' bollocks. This has been the biggest story out there since the fucking match!

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Yes, in the context of Euro 2020, I am sure that England currently has a bigger problem than most. Some other countries have a racist problem too.

Yes, I am sure you do, but have you any evidence that England has a worse problem than elsewhere?

I mean Bulgarian fans make Nazi salutes at games. French players also receive racist abuse on twitter and as for Italy...well where do you start?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

As should you for posting up wildly inaccurate claims about 'racist cunt fans'.

How does making up such inflammatory claims help the discussion progress?

You being protective of Cardiff City is misplaced. It's not wildly inaccurate. It's not all Cardiff fans of course. Nobody said it was. But CC have a very poor history in this regard as you well know.

 

[ddraig]

Fair few well defensive posts on this thread, still hurting I guess