England vs Scotland 18.6.21

[discokermit]

england got a win when they needed a win and a draw when they needed a draw. i expect they will draw the next game as well.
scotland needed a win out of this game far more than england did.
and i won two quid from a seventy pee bet.

 

[Lord Camomile]

To be quite honest, just like I felt the Croatia match wasn't that great a performance, I didn't think this match was that bad a performance. In fact, they rather seemed like fairly similar performances, in the sense that England's level was about the same while playing against two quite different oppositions.

But, I'll be the first to admit my tactical understanding of the game is pretty superficial, and I often don't see a lot of what's really going on.

Four points, we'll see what happens on Tuesday.

 

[strung out]

To be quite honest, just like I felt the Croatia match wasn't that great a performance, I didn't think this match was that bad a performance. In fact, they rather seemed like fairly similar performances, in the sense that England's level was about the same while playing against two quite different oppositions.

But, I'll be the first to admit my tactical understanding of the game is pretty superficial, and I often don't see a lot of what's really going on.

Four points, we'll see what happens on Tuesday.

It's ok, most of the armchair pundits on this forum haven't got a clue either.

 

[Athos]

Yes, what we really need is to get someone who's won something in club management, a big title in Serie A or La Liga. Someone like...

View attachment 274235

Both much better managers than Southgate.

 

[editor]

I really don't get this near hysteria about Jack Grealish either.

 

[ska invita]

I really don't get this near hysteria about Jack Grealish either.

whats the hysteria?

 

[editor]

whats the hysteria?

You haven't noticed?

 

[ska invita]

You haven't noticed?

no - im not really on social media and watched the match with the volume down
is the hysteria positive or negative towards him?

 

[Athos]

I think he is, but maybe we're measuring success differently. He's bringing out healthier attitudes, fewer tantrums, better mental health. Better football will follow.

Course it's fine to ask that, but not of Kane as if he personally has failed his country (I don't mean you here, for clarity). It's twisted, and it doesn't work. We watched that travesty unfold.

Personally I disagree with you that you can compare the profiles of club games, no matter how huge, and international. It's a different beast. Not better or worse, it's not a value opinion, just different.

I thought I had made it pretty clear that I wasn't talking about last night's game but in broader terms. I'm talking about WC 2018 and onwards.

Fuck me one choked match. Yeah let's get a superstar ego in. No thanks. We shook off the penalties curse, made it out the group stages in a world cup, I think people are forgetting that this is an improvement for England

I want results, not "healthier attitudes"!

But, yeah, all fair points, even if I remain unconvinced.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I really don't get this near hysteria about Jack Grealish either.

Case of a player's reputation growing when he's not in the team, I think. He didn't do much when he came on really.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I want results, not "healthier attitudes"!

But, yeah, all fair points, even if I remain unconvinced.

WC semi-finals. Easy as you like qualification for the Euros, unbeaten so far and as good as through to the last 16. Results! You can't have it both ways.

tbh because of the format, this tournament doesn't really get started properly until the knockouts. But you can't do much better than qualifying for the knockouts after two games.

 

[The39thStep]

I really don't get this near hysteria about Jack Grealish either.

Got talent but overrated imo . Plus side : good control, can dribble , passes well ( aside from passing to a sub last night. Negatives : hugely individualist often at the expense of other members of the team , tendency to ‘draw fouls’ ie go down if there is a light breeze , gets involved in sly individual niggles .
Talents there but needs coaching at a top level to do well in a team that has world class players.

 

[Rebelda]

I want results, not "healthier attitudes"!

But, yeah, all fair points, even if I remain unconvinced.

I guess what I think is that you don't really get one without the other. I'm enjoying supporting England for the first time in ages, it felt like self harm for a long time pre 2018 And I love Gareth.

 

[strung out]

Both much better managers than Southgate.

Yes, undeniably, but Southgate is the one who got England to a World Cup semi final, as opposed to those two top managers, who failed miserably.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, undeniably, but Southgate is the one who got England to a World Cup semi final, as opposed to those two top managers, who failed miserably.

I think the role of international manager as lead cheerleader is underestimated. They can't go and get players so they have to work with what they've got. Was Chris Coleman a tactical genius? No. The team pretty much picked itself, and he was mostly the enthusiastic supporter at the sidelines who got his players to enjoy themselves and believe in what they were doing.

On that score, Southgate gets high marks. He supports and backs his players and gets them to buy into what they're trying to do.

 

[imposs1904]

I don't expect England to win anything. But I do know that group of players is capable of performing much better, especially against average sides like Croatia and poor ones like Scotland.

Still raging?

 

[The39thStep]

What Southgate, and his coaching / scouting team has done is to develop and promote a whole swathe of young players that other managers would have overlooked for a good couple of years . Who could have imagined Mason Mount pretty much being assured of a place a year ago ?

 

[imposs1904]

I really don't get this near hysteria about Jack Grealish either.

Lovely hair.

 

[The39thStep]

I think the role of international manager as lead cheerleader is underestimated. They can't go and get players so they have to work with what they've got. Was Chris Coleman a tactical genius? No. The team pretty much picked itself, and he was mostly the enthusiastic supporter at the sidelines who got his players to enjoy themselves and believe in what they were doing.

On that score, Southgate gets high marks. He supports and backs his players and gets them to buy into what they're trying to do.

I’ve agreed with you on the football threads more than I have ever done on the whole board

 

[Steel Icarus]

To a neutral like me at least, it seems absurd to diss England for their performance here, let alone boo them ffs.

Every fan would love their team to win a tournament in an spectacular fashion, but having a disappointing game during the group stage but still have four points after two matches is something literally every other nation and their fans would consider more than acceptable. Certainly not worth dissing their team for.

It's not about having four points though. If we'd drawn with Croatia and beaten Scotland we'd have four points and everything would be hunky dory, but we were really good against Croatia and almost complete arse last night.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Lovely hair.

Good legs too.

 

[imposs1904]

I like that Mount has Le Tissier's nose.

 

[Badgers]

whats the hysteria?

The Gammon Choir have been calling for him

 

[strung out]

The Gammon Choir have been calling for him

Been listening to Football Weekly?

 

[Rebelda]

A good club football manager isn't necessarily a good international one. It's a different job. As England u21 manager Southgate was absolutely the right pick imo.

I think the role of international manager as lead cheerleader is underestimated. They can't go and get players so they have to work with what they've got. Was Chris Coleman a tactical genius? No. The team pretty much picked itself, and he was mostly the enthusiastic supporter at the sidelines who got his players to enjoy themselves and believe in what they were doing.

On that score, Southgate gets high marks. He supports and backs his players and gets them to buy into what they're trying to do.

Agree with this.

 

[ska invita]

The Gammon Choir have been calling for him

how do you mean?

 

[The39thStep]

There’s a good analysis in the Athletic about Southgates instructions for both James and Shaw to stay back and play the ball inside . ( can’t reproduce it on the phone) . Also a good separate article by Honegstein on why Sancho should have a run out .

 

[Badgers]

Been listening to Football Weekly?

I did actually LOL at that

 

[tommers]

There’s a good analysis in the Athletic about Southgates instructions for both James and Shaw to stay back and play the ball inside . ( can’t reproduce it on the phone) . Also a good separate article by Honegstein on why Sancho should have a run out .

Tbf it's been Grealish as the saviour for the last month. Now it's Sancho. There's always somebody.

 

[strung out]

Tbf it's been Grealish as the saviour for the last month. Now it's Sancho. There's always somebody.

The more someone doesn't play, the better they get.