England fans: the racism and the violence

[Diamond]

For comparison purposes, how often would you say you've been getting people coming in to report stuff like sexism or homophobia?

I mean, I'm glad if we're in agreement, but if the online disinhibition effect explains a lot of the abuse, then I'm not sure why you also need malicious foreigh actors as an additional explanation? Occam's razor and all that?

No sign of homophobia. Plenty of evidence of sexual harassment in the workplace. If it's a criminal offence they wouldn't come to us tho.

My last major success was a woman who had been discriminated against for hitting the menopause. The guy basically fired her as soon as she mentioned it. Unbelievable.

You could sum it up by saying that we tend to see injustice in South London focused on the old school areas - shitty bosses, rubbish housing associations, incompetent gov depts, and the odd man behaving very badly towards a woman.

 

[hitmouse]

Fwiw, people might find this person's data interesting:

 

[Diamond]

That is very interesting - lot of ODE stuff going on there, I suspect.

It would be very helpful if a number of very public examples were produced.

 

[two sheds]

Interesting idea that professional people can't be thugs.

 

[Diamond]

Interesting idea that professional people can't be thugs.

The City boys aren't exactly angels.

 

[Elpenor]

This the Twitter abusers or the people fighting in the videos?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This the Twitter abusers or the people fighting in the videos?

The former. Here’s a longer thread. Not sure how objective this stuff is….does he really know that Kent is a hotbed for it??

 

[ddraig]

Do you know Kent isn't a hotbed for it?

 

[A380]

Tech giants have got a clear responsibility to identify, ban and prevent racists using social media to spew filth. If they won't then the Government should have a role in forcing them to.

Wembley, the cops and the FA are responsible for stopping people entering their overpriced grounds without a ticket.

'Yob culture' however is a very loaded term and often used by Daily Mail types in their campaign of hate towards working class people: especially when they have the temerity to enjoy themselves. There was plenty of that type of sneering yesterday

Not sure it’s the job of the old bill to manage entrance to a private business. Football clubs argue for the absolute minimum of policing that they have to pay for whilst expecting the communities they are based in to subsidise their business by policing outside fir them.

 

[brogdale]

Good stuff

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Do you know Kent isn't a hotbed for it?

I know nothing of Kent. But given your interest it must be working class with lots of St George flags and other symbols that upset you, right?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Interesting idea that professional people can't be thugs.

As I said earlier it's a cultural thing. It's something that goes beyond football and beyond the stereotype that people who behave like this are just aggressive white van men or whatever.

I'm not saying it's exclusive to English culture but I don't even think that's a relevant point. It's in the culture I live in and it's shit.

 

[brogdale]

I know nothing of Kent. But given your interest it must be working class with lots of St George flags and other symbols that upset you, right?

Emily Thornberry once went there, (because there was a by-election that her party failed to win).

 

[A380]

You really don’t get this at the rugby. And whilst that might have been a class thing 20 years ago I’m not sure the demographics are that different now between the codes?

 

[ddraig]

I know nothing of Kent. But given your interest it must be working class with lots of St George flags and other symbols that upset you, right?

Why say that? Does it suit your view of me to go straight in with the bullshit assumptions?

Kent is a hotbed IME, as I've lived there and seen/heard it, "white flight" from London, BNP headquarters and march, murder of Stephen Lawrence and the community of the murderers closing ranks/scared of consequences etc etc

 

[brogdale]

Why say that? Does it suit your view of me to go straight in with the bullshit assumptions?

Kent is a hotbed IME, as I've lived there and seen/heard it, "white flight" from London, BNP headquarters and march, murder of Stephen Lawrence

Those things were in Greater London.

 

[ddraig]

Those things were in Greater London.

Kent

 

[brogdale]

Kent

No, Greater London.

 

[ddraig]

No, Greater London.

Borders of

 

[brogdale]

Borders of

No, Greater London.

 

[Maltin]

I went down to Wembley last night to see if I could blag my way in - there was a method, it didn't involve rushing the gates or any violence. I didn't get in but I was there on Wembley way for about 2 hours prior to kick off. It reminded me a bit of the Notting Hill Carnival. There were fans on top of kiosks, hanging from lamposts, dancing to music (which seemed to be everywhere). The atmosphere was one big party. It was a remarkably white crowd for London, which is not a very white place, but it was also mixed too - plenty of black and brown England fans too - I didn't see anything except high spirits and a really, really fun atmosphere. The people I remember going for it the most actually were a group of British Asians who were on excellent form.

I saw no racism, nor any hint of it.

I was there too yesterday and did not see any trouble either.

I was there earlier in the tournament and it seemed well organised with a Covid check and a check of your tickets before you could get to the stadium. This time, for whatever reason, by the time I got to the stadium, these pre-checks were non-existent which presumably encouraged more to try to blag their way in. There was one young lad behind us who asked my mate if he could take a photo of his ticket (on his phone). Unsurprisingly my mate told him where to go and others had a go at this lad too. My mate also saw someone get in with a dodgy looking ticket on her phone in front of him.

Obviously, mask wearing was largely non-existent both around the stadium and on the tube. Also, the state of Wembley Way with the rubbish and the stickiness of the floor was pretty depressing.

 

[Diamond]

The racial discrimination case (and the only one that I have ever seen featuring white on non-white abuse) that I’m running right now involves notably non-London, Kent/Essex elements causing the abuse

 

[Yossarian]

Figures from police forces suggest Kent is indeed a hotbed for hate crimes, though not the worst in Britain.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You really don’t get this at the rugby. And whilst that might have been a class thing 20 years ago I’m not sure the demographics are that different now between the codes?

Fans of my local rugby team:

 

[Elpenor]

Fans of my local rugby team:

View attachment 278309

I love rugby, and would like to go and watch the Chiefs as they’re my local team, but this stupid, outdated branding puts me off (the name I am ambivalent about). Also find their brand of rugby incredibly turgid to watch, there are a few covid-deniers in the team and the owner seems to be a total prick based on his media appearances.

 

[The39thStep]

I was there too yesterday and did not see any trouble either.

I was there earlier in the tournament and it seemed well organised with a Covid check and a check of your tickets before you could get to the stadium. This time, for whatever reason, by the time I got to the stadium, these pre-checks were non-existent which presumably encouraged more to try to blag their way in. There was one young lad behind us who asked my mate if he could take a photo of his ticket (on his phone). Unsurprisingly my mate told him where to go and others had a go at this lad too. My mate also saw someone get in with a dodgy looking ticket on her phone in front of him.

Obviously, mask wearing was largely non-existent both around the stadium and on the tube. Also, the state of Wembley Way with the rubbish and the stickiness of the floor was pretty depressing.

Good to hear an eye witness who was actually there

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Good that this thread started by a Welshman concentrates on the issue of racism associated with English football fans and chooses not to touch on Scottish, Italian, Dutch, Russian, Polish, Hungarian and so on’s equally as despicable racism associated with their national teams.
Surely it is football that has an issue with racism and yobbery. Which is why any right thinking person knew long ago to bin it off.

 

[imposs1904]

Good that this thread started by a Welshman concentrates on the issue of racism associated with English football fans and chooses not to touch on Scottish, Italian, Dutch, Russian, Polish, Hungarian and so on’s equally as despicable racism associated with their national teams.
Surely it is football that has an issue with racism and yobbery. Which is why any right thinking person knew long ago to bin it off.

Scottish?

 

[Rebelda]

Racism is a global problem, intensified by capitalism. Fuck both.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Scottish?

Yes, Scottish, has it passed you by?