Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

Status
Not open for further replies.
She & most Dems are so afraid to be liberals.....so afraid to stand for anything.

I think that she wasn't and isnt afraid to stand for something. Criminalising flag burning, and myriad of other awful policy positions and history, is pretty extreme. It is just that what she stood for was not good.
 
That's as maybe, some places don't have a black population, but why the paranoia? Isn't it flat out racism? And who's responsible for that?

Interestingly, I stumbled across this yesterday, and it answers the question quite neatly. The dark rigidity of fundamentalist rural America: a view from the inside.

This comes closer I think than anything I've read before to my take on why rural, working class communities like the one I grew up in are so deeply fucked up. The author is from another such community. I dunno - maybe you have to have lived there and escaped the force field to get this. :( The Democrats didn't cotton on, still largely in denial about the entrenched racism in places like this. Bernie and his supporters were just pissing in the wind, thinking this lot would ever vote for a socialist Jew or that reaching out to the white working class will bring them round. Uh no. Trump and the Tea Partiers before him did "get it," and exploited their fervent beliefs, misguided fears and sheer gullibility to win their support.

It's long, so here's some key points:

In deep-red white America, the white Christian God is king, figuratively and literally. Religious fundamentalism is what has shaped most of their belief systems. Systems built on a fundamentalist framework are not conducive to introspection, questioning, learning, change. When you have a belief system that is built on fundamentalism, it isn’t open to outside criticism, especially by anyone not a member of your tribe and in a position of power. The problem isn’t “coastal elites don’t understand rural Americans.” The problem is rural America doesn’t understand itself and will NEVER listen to anyone outside their bubble. It doesn’t matter how “understanding” you are, how well you listen, what language you use…if you are viewed as an outsider, your views are automatically discounted.

Another problem with rural, Christian, white Americans is they are racists. I’m not talking about white hood-wearing, cross-burning, lynching racists (though some are). I’m talking about people who deep down in their heart of hearts truly believe they are superior because they are white. Their white God made them in his image and everyone else is a less-than-perfect version, flawed and cursed.

Another major problem with closed-off, fundamentalist belief systems is they are very susceptible to propaganda. All belief systems are to some extent, but fundamentalist systems even more so because there are no checks and balances. If bad information gets in, it doesn’t get out and because there are no internal mechanisms to guard against it, it usually ends up very damaging to the whole.

Deeply held beliefs are usually only altered, replaced under catastrophic circumstances that are personal.

How do you make climate change personal to someone who believes only God can alter the weather? How do you make racial equality personal to someone who believes whites are naturally superior to non-whites? How do you make gender equality personal to someone who believes women are supposed to be subservient to men by God’s command? How do you get someone to view minorities as not threatening personal to people who don’t live around and never interact with them? How do you make personal the fact massive tax cuts and cutting back government hurts their economic situation when they’ve voted for these for decades? I don’t think you can without some catastrophic events. And maybe not even then.

It finishes with a list of beliefs folks will have to shift for anything to change, but probably never will - everything from accepting their economic plight is the result of supply side economics, not immigrants taking their jobs or moving their jobs overseas to no one is really coming for their guns. :rolleyes: It's depressing, doesn't offer much hope, but is bang on from my experience. :mad:
 
Then there's this one in Columbia Journalism Review which I stumbled across today when I did a search to find the reference for the place I grew up being a "Sundown Town."

ABOUT A MONTH BEFORE THE ELECTION, a radio station in Fairfield, Illinois, stopped taking calls to its popular morning talk show. It was the first time in 25 years that news director Len Wells remembers ever having to shut off the phones. “It was awful,” Wells says of the comments about the presidential race. “We had people calling and saying incredibly hateful and ugly things. We just couldn’t have a civil conversation.”

WFIW is broadcast from Wayne County in Southern Illinois, where voters overwhelmingly voted for President-elect Donald Trump. In fact, Trump had the largest margin of support in Wayne out of any county in Illinois, with 83 percent of the vote. (Hillary Clinton won the state because of the large Democratic base in more populous and diverse Chicago and its ring suburbs).

It is an odd paradox in a small community: people shop with their local TV reporters and send their kids to school with the children of the editors of their hometown newspaper. They know their local journalists not simply as a byline but as the reporter who sits in the fourth row from the front on the right side of the church every Sunday. They don’t always see them as “the media.” The media are CNN and The New York Times and the Huffington Post. The media that deserves to be put in pens, like cattle, as Tom Matthews, editor of the Wayne County Press wrote in a recent column.

“People drop the ‘N’ word around here,” says Wells, the Fairfield radio station news director who also writes a weekly column for the Evansville Courier & Press in neighboring Indiana. “We have homes that can’t be sold to a black person. Local politicians have refused to hang Obama’s picture in city hall. We’ve talked about it on the air and how wrong that is, that this is just not the way we are as people.”

Wayne County is a working class community, with a population of about 16,700. It is 98 percent white, according to the US Census. About a quarter of the residents in Wayne County work in the shrinking manufacturing sector and others in agriculture and mining, retail, and healthcare. It’s a community that is hurting economically. “We’re classic fly-over country,” says Matthews, the editor of the Wayne County Press. “We’re just Middle Americans trying to eke out a living.”

It would be easy to dismiss Wayne County now that Trump won the election. Residents here are happy and hopeful. And why wouldn’t they be? Trump has promised to make their forgotten America great again, to bring back jobs, to rid the country of strangers who don’t look like or worship like most of the people who live in Wayne County. As Chicago Reporter editor Susan Smith Richardson noted recently at panel discussion in Chicago, jobs, trade and immigration have one thing in common across the electorate: fear of foreigners. “We have a number of, I’d assume, illegal immigrants living here,” Matthew says of Wayne County. “They are largely peaceful.”

In case you missed, it, I as born in Fairfield. My family still live in this godforsaken shithole and yes, I know the two people mentioned. Mathews was and will always be a complete bastard. Even looks like Satan. The shite he's talking here - even legal immigrants rarely spend 5 minutes there for their own safety. :mad:

In 2008 and 2012, Wayne County voted against Obama like 3 to 1, despite him being the Senator for the state.

But hey, what would I know. Of course, it's just these poor misunderstood white folks and their hurt fee fees. We must listen to them. :rolleyes:
 
Then there's this one in Columbia Journalism Review which I stumbled across today when I did a search to find the reference for the place I grew up being a "Sundown Town."

ABOUT A MONTH BEFORE THE ELECTION, a radio station in Fairfield, Illinois, stopped taking calls to its popular morning talk show. It was the first time in 25 years that news director Len Wells remembers ever having to shut off the phones. “It was awful,” Wells says of the comments about the presidential race. “We had people calling and saying incredibly hateful and ugly things. We just couldn’t have a civil conversation.”

WFIW is broadcast from Wayne County in Southern Illinois, where voters overwhelmingly voted for President-elect Donald Trump. In fact, Trump had the largest margin of support in Wayne out of any county in Illinois, with 83 percent of the vote. (Hillary Clinton won the state because of the large Democratic base in more populous and diverse Chicago and its ring suburbs).

It is an odd paradox in a small community: people shop with their local TV reporters and send their kids to school with the children of the editors of their hometown newspaper. They know their local journalists not simply as a byline but as the reporter who sits in the fourth row from the front on the right side of the church every Sunday. They don’t always see them as “the media.” The media are CNN and The New York Times and the Huffington Post. The media that deserves to be put in pens, like cattle, as Tom Matthews, editor of the Wayne County Press wrote in a recent column.

“People drop the ‘N’ word around here,” says Wells, the Fairfield radio station news director who also writes a weekly column for the Evansville Courier & Press in neighboring Indiana. “We have homes that can’t be sold to a black person. Local politicians have refused to hang Obama’s picture in city hall. We’ve talked about it on the air and how wrong that is, that this is just not the way we are as people.”

Wayne County is a working class community, with a population of about 16,700. It is 98 percent white, according to the US Census. About a quarter of the residents in Wayne County work in the shrinking manufacturing sector and others in agriculture and mining, retail, and healthcare. It’s a community that is hurting economically. “We’re classic fly-over country,” says Matthews, the editor of the Wayne County Press. “We’re just Middle Americans trying to eke out a living.”

It would be easy to dismiss Wayne County now that Trump won the election. Residents here are happy and hopeful. And why wouldn’t they be? Trump has promised to make their forgotten America great again, to bring back jobs, to rid the country of strangers who don’t look like or worship like most of the people who live in Wayne County. As Chicago Reporter editor Susan Smith Richardson noted recently at panel discussion in Chicago, jobs, trade and immigration have one thing in common across the electorate: fear of foreigners. “We have a number of, I’d assume, illegal immigrants living here,” Matthew says of Wayne County. “They are largely peaceful.”

In case you missed, it, I as born in Fairfield. My family still live in this godforsaken shithole and yes, I know the two people mentioned. Mathews was and will always be a complete bastard. Even looks like Satan. The shite he's talking here - even legal immigrants rarely spend 5 minutes there for their own safety. :mad:

In 2008 and 2012, Wayne County voted against Obama like 3 to 1, despite him being the Senator for the state.

But hey, what would I know. Of course, it's just these poor misunderstood white folks and their hurt fee fees. We must listen to them. :rolleyes:
Those are excellent articles. I grew up in white christian rural America and they ring true.
 
How do you make climate change personal to someone who believes only God can alter the weather? How do you make racial equality personal to someone who believes whites are naturally superior to non-whites? How do you make gender equality personal to someone who believes women are supposed to be subservient to men by God’s command? How do you get someone to view minorities as not threatening personal to people who don’t live around and never interact with them? How do you make personal the fact massive tax cuts and cutting back government hurts their economic situation when they’ve voted for these for decades? I don’t think you can without some catastrophic events. And maybe not even then.

It finishes with a list of beliefs folks will have to shift for anything to change, but probably never will - everything from accepting their economic plight is the result of supply side economics, not immigrants taking their jobs or moving their jobs overseas to no one is really coming for their guns. :rolleyes: It's depressing, doesn't offer much hope, but is bang on from my experience. :mad:
There are a few north American based commenters here and few of them have said that the basics of this does not ring true. So thanks for posting. I am very open to the idea that we need to be much more engaged with the emotional and spiritual motivations of people to move them to vote\be politically active

What little I can bring to this discussion is that a good few years ago it was noticed that climate science was loosing the political discussion when it had overwhelmingly won the scientific debate. People looked at why this had happened and how to fix it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CRI
No, they are not really very helpful beyond having a sneery and faintly self-congratulatory tone, particularly if an 'escape' has been effected. I am fairly sure I could come up with a similar pile of twaddle myself, detailing my impoverished northern childhood. Why is evangelical christianity on the rise? What place does religion occupy in regional economies. What is the role of education. Religion as alternative safety net? Why this particular form of religion - who is selling it and why. What is in it for the population...and come to that, just how are we to discern how prevalent are these views. Whole entire communities?

Sneery shit about god-fearing hillbillies is just depthless drivel. Religion, and all its discontents does not arrive in a vacuum...and people are not just lazy brainwashed fools.
 
Stein wore a black leather ensemble with spiked heels, and joined the boys in drinking toasts to Evil.

Kinda fucks up that whole "Vote for Stein, because Hillary is in the pocket of wealthy foreign donors"

Why the fuck is she at a dinner with Putin and Flynn?
 
and people are not just lazy brainwashed fools.

This is something I'd like to believe, but when it comes to Trump voters, a question posed by Johnny Cancuck 3 on another thread has still not been answered:

what do you say about people who rightfully crave change in an unequal and unfair system - but who choose for their savior a billionaire born with a silver spoon in his mouth, who shits in a golden toilet in a Manhattan highrise with his name emblazoned across the top, who hides his taxes and who is indebted to foreign banks to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars?
 
Or the 47% who refused to engage in such a crapulous spectacle and stayed home? And out of the 53% who did vote, do you think each side was entirely satisfied with their choice? No negative voting? No voting because they believed what they were told (because we would never do that, no). Those people who voted for Trump all voted for the same reason? Or Hillary?
There is a lot of finger pointing with tendencies to place people in neat categories with a fully functional set of prejudices, faults and motivations...while simultaneously divorcing them from much in the way of context. I am just not seeing a lot of it as particularly illuminating or helpful or even balanced. Lots of angry spouting from some frothing journo does not constitute anything remotely like an analysis (and hardly ever offers an alternative view unless it is the imaginary one conjured up in said journo's own head). Colourful, psuedo-anthrolpological pifflle with a side helping of smug outrage.
 
No, they are not really very helpful beyond having a sneery and faintly self-congratulatory tone, particularly if an 'escape' has been effected. I am fairly sure I could come up with a similar pile of twaddle myself, detailing my impoverished northern childhood. Why is evangelical christianity on the rise? What place does religion occupy in regional economies. What is the role of education. Religion as alternative safety net? Why this particular form of religion - who is selling it and why. What is in it for the population...and come to that, just how are we to discern how prevalent are these views. Whole entire communities?

Sneery shit about god-fearing hillbillies is just depthless drivel. Religion, and all its discontents does not arrive in a vacuum...and people are not just lazy brainwashed fools.

Sorry, I don't think you are quite grasping this one. Fundamentalist Christianity (not necessarily the same as Evangelical - that's more a way of practicing, not the beliefs per se,) isn't something that's just become popular. It's shaped the core attitudes and values of rural communities in the Midwest from the time they were founded. I think it was sometime in maybe the late 1970's that the "Moral Majority" started trying to get in with right wing politicians on a state and national level. Reagan certainly recognised the benefits of linking with them. It's a symbiotic relationship really - fundamentalist christian churches (the folks who do believe the white Jesus stuff) have used politicians to get laws pass that reflect and promote their beliefs. Politicians have courted the fundamentalist Christian leadership because getting preachers to tell large congregations to vote for them gets them elected.

Yes, there's money involved, but not in the way you're thinking - not some outside influence buying souls and influence. Congregations donate to and fundraise for candidates that will promote their version of religious values in law and policy. Once elected, politicians set about doing just that. Also, don't forget - the two aren't mutually exclusive. Trump may not seem the epitomy of morality, but plenty of politicians are as fervently religious as the churchgoers who back them.

I really don't think you get both how prevalent and genuinely held these religious beliefs are. To people in the UK, it looks corny, hokey and fake, but believe me, they mean it. I think they are deeply misguided and dangerous beliefs, but I don't doubt for an minute they aren't genuine and deeply held. And THAT is the essence of the first article - because their beliefs are so deeply held and prescriptive, it's almost impossible for them to absorb information that doesn't reflect their belief system. Facts genuinely don't matter if you are driven by faith. We've seen shit like that throughout history, so I don't get why people are so surprised that it could still happen now.

I remember people here being puzzled that America elected George Bush Junior as president - someone who genuinely came across as quite dim and who claimed God talked directly to him. Although that sounds like a load of woo woo hookey to most people here, and to Liberal folk in America, I knew exactly why people in the rural Midwest ate it up.
 
I'm not saying everyone who voted Trump or GOP down ticket was motivated by religious fundamentalism. I am saying in places like where I come from, religious fundamentalism is so pervasive it impacts on EVERYTHING people do. Few people literally think outside that box, and those that do risk being shunned in the community. That IS the context.

Let me give you an example of a post I found on the Facebook page of a pastor in Fairfield. I used to know the guy, went to school with his son and daughter. I'd say versions of this message were given by pastors at most churches in the area some time before the election. People do look up to their ministers. They listen. They obey. It's shit, but it's how they do things.

BRO. RONNIE POSTING THIS.
This ELECTION Is VERY SERIOUS.

Any of you who are struggling to find a third candidate here just a month from the election.... I'd just like to say. Many of you have expressed that you do not want to vote for Hillary. Those of you who want to vote for her... then I'm sure you will and that is your right.

However, those of you who TRULY do not want Hillary should really think about it before you try to vote for someone who is just getting into the race. Most of those late candidates are coming in just to take votes away from one or the other. So, if one does vote for a third party..... more than likely She will go straight to the White House.

I for one do not plan to fall into the trap that some of the politicians and media are trying to get us into.Just like in the Bible there is good and bad. Right or wrong.... I have two choices. Hillary Clinton who supports killing of Babies even on their due date, in a video she has stated that our religious beliefs and cultural traditions will have to be changed through laws or I have the choice of Donald Trump who has confessed that he has said and done things that he regrets and is not proud of.

He wants to preserve our Constitution, Protect our borders to protect all of us, and most of all he is Pro Life. So, if you want Hillary then vote for her. If you don't want her, If you vote for a third candidate... you are more than likely giving her the white house.

I and my wife plan to vote for Donald Trump. He isn't perfect. NONE OF US ARE Except God. I believe, like other ministers have said, that Mr. Trump has been raised up for such a time as this.

When one has a call on their life...... There is ALWAYS ONES TRYING TO TEAR THEM DOWN. I choose to vote for Mr. Trump. He is by far the best choice. And, I wish him the Very Best and God's Blessings. God Bless all of you with your choices. This HAS been a very difficult Campaign.
 
So, just magically, out of thin air, a particularly regressive form of christianity appeared (with all the hoopla of mega-churches) because of? It is quite true - I really fail to grasp something fundamental about US religion...and that is the sheer size and diversity...it appears that anyone can call themselves a pastor and start reeling in donations...and any old interpretation of biblical texts can be wheeled out as proof of God's Will...so where, exactly, is the socialist Jesus?
 
American Jeezus is not a socialist.

Could be though? If someone wanted to engage along theological lines. It appears a fruitful possibility, given the religious influence over quite a large amount of the population (I am certain I read over 80% actively believe in God...and J had all the right moves for a properly socialistic saviour...so why not?
 
Could be though? If someone wanted to engage along theological lines. It appears a fruitful possibility, given the religious influence over quite a large amount of the population (I am certain I read over 80% actively believe in God...and J had all the right moves for a properly socialistic saviour...so why not?
Be my guest then.

You'll definitely have to rebrand though. Socialist, Communist and even Liberal are words, and concepts spewed from the bowels of Satan.
 
Trump has actually delivered on a big campaign promise: A company that said it was going to shift 1,400 manufacturing jobs from Indianapolis to Mexico now says it's keeping 1,000 of those jobs in the US after working out a deal with Trump.

But this being Trump, there is bound to be some hideous catch that will leave the workers worse off than they were before, maybe he's offered to sell their organs or something.
 
CyfneLuWEAAf8KI.jpg:large



The face of a rapist when his date arrives at the table.
 
Kinda fucks up that whole "Vote for Stein, because Hillary is in the pocket of wealthy foreign donors"

Why the fuck is she at a dinner with Putin and Flynn?
So she took a buckshee dinner from Mad Vlad. How is that the same as Hilary taking huge donations from the butchers of Yemen?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom