Donald Trump's 2nd term

[Spymaster]

Personally, I'd rather see the antisemitic contingent booted off the site ...

What he posted was not antisemitic. As anyone who's actually read the Mearsheimer piece he referred to would realise. But you didn't, did you? Just straight in calling for bannings. As ever.

 

[Rob Ray]

I think there is/should be room to talk about the extent of the Israeli lobby in US politics, but starting from a position of They control it all is either pretty close to or dipped in anti-Semitism making it a poor start point. In this case it didn't even make sense in context – Trump went much further than Biden in supporting Israel while President, to the point of moving the embassy to Jerusalem. The Knesset loves Trump.

 

[Silas Loom]

What he posted was not antisemitic. As anyone who's actually read the Mearsheimer piece he referred to would realise. But you didn't, did you? Just straight in calling for bannings. As ever.

This is the second time since I’ve been back that you’ve got into a frothing rage about something that other people think is antisemitic and you think is absolutely fine. Why is this of such importance to you? Why do you believe yourself to be an authority on antisemitism?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think there is/should be room to talk about the extent of the Israeli lobby in US politics, but starting from a position of They control it all is either pretty close to or dipped in anti-Semitism making it a poor start point. In this case it didn't even make sense in context – Trump went much further than Biden in supporting Israel while President, to the point of moving the embassy to Jerusalem. The Knesset loves Trump.

I agree with this. I think dwyer is wrong about a lot of this stuff, including this point. But it can be discussed. It is possible to point this kind of thing out to him, and perhaps get a response or even - heaven forfend - a rethink.

 

[Spymaster]

This is the second time since I’ve been back that you’ve got into a frothing rage about something that other people think is antisemitic and you think is absolutely fine. Why is this of such importance to you? Why do you believe yourself to be an authority on antisemitism?

I can read.

The article he linked to is not wrong. The suggestion that US policy is wholly controlled by the Israel lobby is wide of the mark but it's a massive influence.

Have you read the piece?

 

[krtek a houby]

I think there is/should be room to talk about the extent of the Israeli lobby in US politics, but starting from a position of They control it all is either pretty close to or dipped in anti-Semitism making it a poor start point. In this case it didn't even make sense in context – Trump went much further than Biden in supporting Israel while President, to the point of moving the embassy to Jerusalem. The Knesset loves Trump.

Yes. Agreed.

Absolutely should be room for discussion.

Just not with proven antisemites.

Surely not a controversial issue, keeping them at bay?


(Not having a go at yourself)

 

[kabbes]

Fair enough.

It's not a popularity contest.

Personally, I'd rather see the antisemitic contingent booted off the site, but if you think there's mileage to be had by conversation - go for it.

I've seen other sites go down, with the likes of the bigots. I don't wish to see the same here.

Do you really still think that the best way to address politics that harms others is to make it go ‘over there’? Really? After all these years of the utter failure of that approach?

 

[krtek a houby]

Do you really still think that the best way to address politics that harms others is to make it go ‘over there’? Really? After all these years of the utter failure of that approach?

You're the brains. You tell me.

Do you think that the antisemitic contingent here really deserve a moment in the spotlight?

 

[kabbes]

You're the brains. You tell me.

Do you think that the antisemitic contingent here really deserve a moment in the spotlight?

What’s “deserve” got to do with it? They exist and they will be saying this stuff. I’d rather they did it here where people can point out the ways it is wrong than on some other corner of the internet where they’ll find a willing audience

 

[Silas Loom]

I can read.

The article he linked to is not wrong. The suggestion that US policy is wholly controlled by the Israel lobby is wide of the mark but it's a massive influence.

Have you read the piece?

The post that Phil was banned for just said “Israel”. No link. That’s the one you’re defending.

 

[BigMoaner]

That debate was horrifying.

 

[krtek a houby]

What’s “deserve” got to do with it? They exist and they will be saying this stuff. I’d rather they did it here where people can point out the ways it is wrong than on some other corner of the internet where they’ll find a willing audience

Go on, then. How should one approach the antisemitic contingent here?

Because phildwyer ,barlimo , _Russ_ don't seem to give a fuck about their bigotry and neither do those who regularly like their posts...

How is pointing out their wrongness making a difference?

Genuine question - not having a go.

 

[Spymaster]

The post that Phil was banned for just said “Israel”. No link. That’s the one you’re defending.

The suggestion being that the Israeli lobby has a monumental influence on US politics. That's true. And he linked the article up before he was banned.

 

[Silas Loom]

The suggestion being that the Israeli lobby has a monumental influence on US politics. That's true. And he linked the article up before he was banned.

You haven’t answered the question of why you’re so convinced that you are an authority on antisemitism. Disproportionately to any expertise or discernment you claim on any other fraught topic on here.

 

[Spymaster]

You haven’t answered the question of why you’re so convinced that you are an authority on antisemitism.

I'm not sure why you think that I think that. By the standards of these boards I'm very much pro-Israel. That doesn't mean that I don't think there's space to discuss what he introduced there.

 

[kabbes]

Go on, then. How should one approach the antisemitic contingent here?

I’d say that urbanites do it jolly well, actually.

Because phildwyer ,barlimo , _Russ_ don't seem to give a fuck about their bigotry and neither do those who regularly like their posts...

How is pointing out their wrongness making a difference?

Genuine question - not having a go.

It’s making a difference to the much larger audience that read without posting or reacting. They see the posts and they see the challenge.

 

[Silas Loom]

That debate was horrifying.

Trump/Biden, or the last few pages?

 

[krtek a houby]

I’d say that urbanites do it jolly well, actually.

It’s making a difference to the much larger audience that read without posting or reacting. They see the posts and they see the challenge.

Ok, fair enough.

 

[Silas Loom]

I'm not sure why you think that I think that. By the standards of these boards I'm very much pro-Israel. That doesn't mean that I don't think there's space to discuss what he introduced there.

This conversation, and shekelgate. Adamant in both cases.

 

[Spymaster]

This conversation, and shekelgate. Adamant in both cases.

Shekelgate?

 

[Silas Loom]

Shekelgate?

The discussion about whether there was implicit antisemitism in calling money “shekels”.

 

[Spymaster]

The discussion about whether there was implicit antisemitism in calling money “shekels”.

Can't recall. Can you link to it?

 

[Silas Loom]

Can't recall. Can you link to it?

The Home Office and UK government policy concerning asylum seekers/Rwanda deportations

Thing is, with terms like 'idiot' or 'moron', there isn't a group of people who would say 'hang on, don't say that, it applies to us and is derogatory' ... Have Jews said this about Shekels, or is this people taking offence on their behalf? I know many Jews and have never been made aware that...

www.urban75.net

 

[Spymaster]

The Home Office and UK government policy concerning asylum seekers/Rwanda deportations

Thing is, with terms like 'idiot' or 'moron', there isn't a group of people who would say 'hang on, don't say that, it applies to us and is derogatory' ... Have Jews said this about Shekels, or is this people taking offence on their behalf? I know many Jews and have never been made aware that...

www.urban75.net

Is that it?

One post asking LBJ a question?

 

[Silas Loom]

Is that it?

One post asking LBJ a question?

No. These were your contributions in full to that particular discussion.

Seriously?

It's very well know slang/informal for money.

Are you very young (under 30)?

You’ve got this wrong, fella.

That's very different to "shekels" for money though, which is used in the same way as dough, dosh, dollar, quid, Bens, bread, brass ... etc.

Didn't know that, and it was only about an hour ago that I heard that Shekels is used pejoratively by anti-semites.

Is that for certain, or is this a U75 thing?

I think we did that one some time ago, also moron.

Apparently there are degrees of how much offence it's ok to take on this here website!

Have Jews said this about Shekels, or is this people taking offence on their behalf?

I know many Jews and have never been made aware that it's an issue.

I was surprised at the time by how eager you were to argue the toss over it.

 

[Spymaster]

I was surprised at the time by how eager you were to argue the toss over it.

Still not sure how that leads you to suggest that I consider myself an authority on antisemitism. In one of the posts you’ve quoted there, I even say that I didn’t realise it was considered antisemitic.

I think you’ve got this wrong. I stand by all of that because it's thoroughly reasonable, but I don't remember posting it. You've clearly stuck in the bank because you're a bit burned that I disagreed with you.

I understand that.

 

[ska invita]

What he posted was not antisemitic. As anyone who's actually read the Mearsheimer piece he referred to would realise.

Agree....Have read the Mearsheimer peice now....I think Mearsheimer is really tricky....I reach fairly similar conclusions to him on this and Ukraine but I don't agree with how he gets there...

Im not certain exactly what the difference is but i do think he leans towards conspiracy-like simplifications... Maybe the difference is lack of more traditional Marxist for want of a better word, understanding of people's/states motivations and behavoiur. In this case individuals being persuaded by lobbys rather than more systemic drivers.
Something like that... It's Friday night and can't come up with anything better to say.

 

[ska invita]

Anyway Biden wants to stay and we're that more likely to get Trumped

 

[tim]

I haven't met a single American who considers Kamala anything but an over-promoted, repellent horror. We're not stupid, after all. I reckon the only plausible replacement is the dreaded 3G: Governor Gavin Gruesome.

Says our own over self-promoted repellant horror.

And you are stupid, after all.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Anyway Biden wants to stay and we're that more likely to get Trumped

The Daily Star sums it up well.