Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[8ball]

One of my friends has his vegan mother-in-law coming around for Christmas dinner.

You say that as if it's odd that a mother in law would be vegan.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

she gets so much crap for being OK with GM food and non-organic / non-raw etc.

Anti GM food types are some of the biggest wankers out there.

Technology that could help feed the planet but oh no, it’s bad because hippy cunts.

Point out to them that we’ve been fucking with the genetics of food since day one and hopefully their stupid fucking heads will explode.

 

[8ball]

Point out to them that we’ve been fucking with the genetics of food since day one and hopefully their stupid fucking heads will explode.

Yeah, but not with pipettes and centrifuges and men in white coats and stuff.
And some of the attempts to ring-fence biology are pretty dodge tbf.

 

[gentlegreen]

And some of the attempts to ring-fence biology are pretty dodge tbf.

Expensively-bred genetics have always been copyright. I'm fairly certain it's illegal to sell cuttings of fancy geraniums at garden fetes.

PBR - What does it mean? - Cath's Garden Plants

I've also seen them attack Borlaug's Nobel prize-winning breeding from the 60s which has no convenient Monsanto-taint - on account of MUTANT GLUTEN !!!! - and of course Americans getting obese on doughnuts ...

 

[ddraig]

Anti GM food types are some of the biggest wankers out there.

Technology that could help feed the planet but oh no, it’s bad because hippy cunts.

Point out to them that we’ve been fucking with the genetics of food since day one and hopefully their stupid fucking heads will explode.

oh dear! you want monsanto etc fucking and privatising food??

 

[8ball]

oh dear! you want monsanto etc fucking and privatising food??

I have no prob with GM necessarily, my beef is mostly with capitalism.

And my bacon.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Anti GM food types are some of the biggest wankers out there.

Technology that could help feed the planet but oh no, it’s bad because hippy cunts.

Point out to them that we’ve been fucking with the genetics of food since day one and hopefully their stupid fucking heads will explode.

I'm against GM foods and I have a degree in genetics, am I too a clueless wanker?

We have been fucking with the genetics of food for millenia, that much is true. Introducing new genes from unrelated species is something we have not been doing for millenia, but it may take millenia for the consequences to play out. And it's being done by people for whom 'consequences' do not extend beyond the end of the next financial year.

GM crops are mostly created to be better adapted to large scale, mechanised monoculture farming, the very process which is doing so much damage to food security, biodiversity and soil quality; as well as causing things like drought, erosion, desertification and flooding. It's pretty bad for humans too, particularly if it leaves a handful of businesses with a monopoly on food production.

You don't need scare stories or worst case scenarios to argue against GMO's, if everything goes exactly as Monsanto say it will then that's still pretty fucking bad.

 

[SpookyFrank]

We already have everyting we need to feed everyone on the planet. The reason we don't is because there are powerful people who profit from scarcity.

Why would agribusiness kill the goose that lays the golden eggs? Or genetically engineer it to lay enough gold for everyone? That's not how you make money.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I went vegan for 18 months, no meat, dairy, fish, eggs. Also went glutton free.

It was for health reasons (psoriatic arthritis)

A side effect is that I feel ethically better that I'm not Helping the meat industry killing sentient creatures

However I moved back to eating fish recently. Either sustainable fish or fish I catch myself.

I mix with a lot of vegans and have basically stopped disclosing my diet at all as I just seem to upset them in one way or another whatever I tell them. A key point is that I was never vegan as I wear leather etc.

I assume you meant "gluten free" and were autocorrected. Another area where some vegans might also autocorrect is the idea that you can "go vegan" simply by eating the same food that vegans eat. A meat eater can eat vegan food for a whole year and still not necessarily be a vegan, because being vegan is more than just a faddy diet. Some are under the illusion that they are "being vegan" because they're eating vegan food when they don't really buy into or sometimes even know much about the philosophy behind veganism. If you don't have a problem with wearing animal skins then I can understand why that might be seen by some as something that isn't vegan, but if you're comfortable with doing that then others peoples opinions shouldn't really bother you, right?

I'm not a contrary, argumentative type and not insensitive but there are a lot of passionate people out there

So I basically shut the fuck up and find something less controversial like the weather to chat about

Yeah well this covers several "controversial" topics. People also say that you shouldn't discuss things like politics, religion, football team, etc, they can all trigger a negative response depending on the people you happen to be interacting with. It's not something that I believe is a particular issue with vegans, and in my experience I have witnessed far more hostility and antagonism towards vegans than the other way around (this thread being an example of that). It's not a subject that I usually bring up when I'm out in the real world but if it ever does come up, I'm not afraid to discuss it.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Unnatural Vegan is the only one I bother watching much these days - she gets so much crap for being OK with GM food and non-organic / non-raw etc.

I agree with some of the things she says and disagree with other things. She isn't one of my favourite vegan commentators. I disagree with her on GM foods and believe them to be corporate BS.

What I hate most is the prevarication around B12 supplementation from the likes of the "Hippy Healthy vegans".

I'm not sure what this "prevarication around B12" you're on about there tbh. Most vegan commentators say if you have concerns about B12 then take a supplement, so what's the problem with that. Speaking of HHV, Ryan posted his blood work including (B12 levels both before and after supplementation).

 

[8ball]

Some are under the illusion that they are "being vegan" because they're eating vegan food when they don't really buy into or sometimes even know much about the philosophy behind veganism.

Must admit I took “being vegan” to be largely reducible to what you eat. What would be the minimum level of “buying into” the vegan philosophy necessary to really be generally considered a vegan?

 

[mojo pixy]

To be clear, if your diet includes no animal products of any kind, you're vegan. Sanctimony and self-righteousness are 100% optional.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

To be clear, if your diet includes no animal products of any kind, you're vegan.

Noooooo, you have to errrr, believe, too. Apparently.

 

[8ball]

Noooooo, you have to errrr, believe, too. Apparently.

But what?

I want to know what the minimum qualification set is.

 

[8ball]

To be clear, if your diet includes no animal products of any kind, you're vegan. Sanctimony and self-righteousness are 100% optional.

Except for fossilised animals, that’s ok.

 

[bellaozzydog]

I assume you meant "gluten free" and were autocorrected. Another area where some vegans might also autocorrect is the idea that you can "go vegan" simply by eating the same food that vegans eat. A meat eater can eat vegan food for a whole year and still not necessarily be a vegan, because being vegan is more than just a faddy diet. Some are under the illusion that they are "being vegan" because they're eating vegan food when they don't really buy into or sometimes even know much about the philosophy behind veganism. If you don't have a problem with wearing animal skins then I can understand why that might be seen by some as something that isn't vegan, but if you're comfortable with doing that then others peoples opinions shouldn't really bother you, right?


Yeah well this covers several "controversial" topics. People also say that you shouldn't discuss things like politics, religion, football team, etc, they can all trigger a negative response depending on the people you happen to be interacting with. It's not something that I believe is a particular issue with vegans, and in my experience I have witnessed far more hostility and antagonism towards vegans than the other way around (this thread being an example of that). It's not a subject that I usually bring up when I'm out in the real world but if it ever does come up, I'm not afraid to discuss it.

"Being vegan is more than a faddy diet"

This is the point where you lose people by devaluing their choices/efforts. You are saying unless you drink the coolaid you aren't one of us.

Exactly the same as yogis insisting that unless you embrace mystic eastern philosophies you aren't a "real" yogi

I benefit from not eating meat, stretching and meditating, don't throw me shade for not being as fundamental as you, my efforts/choices are, on balance positive in the universe and my pragmatic enthusiasm might bring more people into the fold than a judgemental holier than though approach

 

[8ball]

"Being vegan is more than a faddy diet"

This is the point where you lose people by devaluing their choices/efforts. You are saying unless you drink the coolaid you aren't one of us.

Exactly the same as yogis insisting that unless you embrace mystic eastern philosophies you aren't a "real" yogi

I benefit from not eating meat, stretching and meditating, don't throw me shade for not being as fundamental as you, my efforts/choices are on balance positive

I think being a yogi involves more than a few stretches tbf.

 

[bellaozzydog]

I think being a yogi involves more than a few stretches tbf.

I rest my case.

Apologies I'm halfway into a box of wine

 

[mojo pixy]

Except for fossilised animals, that’s ok.

And honey, if your ethics can stand it, or something.

 

[8ball]

I rest my case.

Apologies I'm halfway into a box of wine

Yoga has a bunch of elements. It’s a bit like saying you’re a Catholic because you like the odd glass of wine.

The bit I’m confused about is what you need to believe or do to be vegan aside from make certain dietary choices.

 

[gentlegreen]

I agree with some of the things she says and disagree with other things. She isn't one of my favourite vegan commentators. I disagree with her on GM foods and believe them to be corporate BS.


I'm not sure what this "prevarication around B12" you're on about there tbh. Most vegan commentators say if you have concerns about B12 then take a supplement, so what's the problem with that. Speaking of HHV, Ryan posted his blood work including (B12 levels both before and after supplementation).

I was referring to the earlier videos where he was being persuaded by others to actually supplement.
I see this video as confirmation of his prevarication.
In Ryan's case, I could well believe he was having B12 injections on the sly.

I don't see GM tech as the ultimate panacea for all our agricultural problems, but something that we reject at our peril.
I am seriously pissed off with Greenpeace. Such a shame that their ex-head resigned over their stance on climate change and not GM.

 

[gentlegreen]

particularly if it leaves a handful of businesses with a monopoly on food production.

Because all the other growers will be wiped out by pests, diseases and climatic change because they can't afford GM seeds ?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Because all the other growers will be wiped out by pests, diseases and climatic change because they can't afford GM seeds ?

Or because producers will be outcompeted in the short term by those using GM crops, and will be left with little choice but to follow suit.

 

[A380]

"Being vegan is more than a faddy diet"

This is the point where you lose people by devaluing their choices/efforts. You are saying unless you drink the coolaid you aren't one of us.

Exactly the same as yogis insisting that unless you embrace mystic eastern philosophies you aren't a "real" yogi

I benefit from not eating meat, stretching and meditating, don't throw me shade for not being as fundamental as you, my efforts/choices are, on balance positive in the universe and my pragmatic enthusiasm might bring more people into the fold than a judgemental holier than though approach

This is the point, unless you are identical in every way you will never be properly ‘one of us’. Some people need, for reasons I’m not going to mock, to be ‘better’ than others who are like them.

It’s not just vegans, lots of religious people do it to and, of course, we on the left is riven with it (People’s Front of Judea, splitters).

There’s a term for it and everything.

 

[gentlegreen]

Personally I like the no-till possibilities afforded by roundup-ready seeds of crops that are by necessity bulk crops.
I wonder if green manure cover crops could be sown as part of the technology ?

Not that the bad practices of the past are much justification, but I have only recently learned that land in the southern USA is contaminated with arsenic used against cotton weevils.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Must admit I took “being vegan” to be largely reducible to what you eat. What would be the minimum level of “buying into” the vegan philosophy necessary to really be generally considered a vegan?

It is true that many believe that simply eating vegan makes them "a vegan". The eating takes care of the superficial "what" however there is a much deeper and fundamental set of "why's" which form a stronger foundation. Without the strong roots that the "why's" provide, it's a bit like building a big beautiful glass palace on sand. This might explain why vegan adoption is a bit like new years resolutions or many attempts to stop smoking, they often don't last very long and a high percentage give up fairly quickly.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

"Being vegan is more than a faddy diet"

This is the point where you lose people by devaluing their choices/efforts. You are saying unless you drink the coolaid you aren't one of us.

Well imo if there is any "devaluation" going on here it would be the other way around, reducing veganism to just a mere diet and ignoring or dismissing the core tenets. It's a bit like wanting to be called a racing driver because you once sat in a passenger seat of a Lada ffs. "Don't you devalue my racing driver credentials".

I benefit from not eating meat, stretching and meditating, don't throw me shade for not being as fundamental as you, my efforts/choices are, on balance positive in the universe and my pragmatic enthusiasm might bring more people into the fold than a judgemental holier than though approach

No shade was being thrown, I think you are being a tad sensitive. I'm just describing it as it is. Being vegan is more that just a diet, that's just how it is.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I was referring to the earlier videos where he was being persuaded by others to actually supplement.
I see this video as confirmation of his prevarication.
In Ryan's case, I could well believe he was having B12 injections on the sly.

tbh, I don't really know what you're getting at here. So what if he was being persuaded by others to supplement? Some people say "you must definitely supplement" and others say "supplement if you are concerned, check your results". As far as I'm concerned both are ok, it's up to the individual to use their brains, investigate for themselves and figure out what they think is best for them.

I don't see GM tech as the ultimate panacea for all our agricultural problems, but something that we reject at our peril.
I am seriously pissed off with Greenpeace. Such a shame that their ex-head resigned over their stance on climate change and not GM.

Fair enough, that's your belief, I don't share yours and Swayzee's enthusiasm for GM at all and believe there are far better natural and more sustainable solutions out there.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

This is the point, unless you are identical in every way you will never be properly ‘one of us’. Some people need, for reasons I’m not going to mock, to be ‘better’ than others who are like them.

There is no exclusive club with bouncers at the door barring entry, however there are basic principles. Some noobs and first timers are not conversant with those principles and hence believe that it's exclusively about diet. Some even get quite aggressive and wish to dismiss the important ethical foundation as if it's nothing. This is what makes it more like "this years fashion" that has no substance to it.

 

[DotCommunist]

if you do enough yogaing you can slow your heart rate down through meditation- one of the few mind over body claims from yoga that is provable iirc. What special moves does advanced vegan philosophy get you? hadoken?