Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[8ball]

Yeah, humanely culled. That well known contradiction.

Well, if we're culling deer anyway and it's scientifically supported, I'm not going to lose any sleep over eating the results.
An alternative might be to introduce some predators...

 

[8ball]

I haven't done too much sea fishing but I do enjoy beach casting on a wild and windy day. Pollack, mackerel, and bass is pretty much all I've caught but I did hook a fucking massive halibut that got away

It's probably weird, but I feel a bit bad about catching a fish on a hook, whereas a good instant shot on a deer or rabbit followed by a hearty stew...

 

[Spymaster]

It's probably weird, but I feel a bit bad about catching a fish on a hook, whereas a good instant shot on a deer or rabbit followed by a hearty stew...

It's not weird and I've felt the same. When you shoot something it usually drops dead. Occasionally you may need to shoot it again (that's always bothered me a bit) but it'll always be dead when you handle it. With fish you hold the animal whilst it's still moving and very much alive and kill it with your hands, yet I have fishing friends who won't shoot.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Well, if we're culling deer anyway and it's scientifically supported, I'm not going to lose any sleep over eating the results.
An alternative might be to introduce some predators...

Fair enough, whatever floats yer boat, although very little of the meat, dairy, eggs and fish consumed has much to do with scientfic culling. I've yet to see a Kentucky Fried Bambi takeaway anywhere yet.

 

[8ball]

Fair enough, whatever floats yer boat, although very little of the meat, dairy, eggs and fish consumed has much to do with scientfic culling. I've yet to see a Kentucky Fried Bambi takeaway anywhere yet.

This is true. Hence me thinking of cutting the worst stuff first (which I'm guessing is the chicken).
Just need to find something else with the right nutrient set for lunch...

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Why do some vegans bother with fake meats. (and cheeses)

"The answer is quite simple once you understand why people choose to remove animal products from their lives in the first place. As it turns out, vegans did not stop eating animals because they didn’t enjoy the taste. Who doesn’t enjoy the taste of a juicy hamburger, or a few slices of bacon? However, vegans chose to stop consuming and using animals on an ethical basis. (It should be noted that there are some people who eat a plant-based diet for health reasons, but these people are not “vegan” as they still use animals in other ways.)

Vegans believe it is morally wrong to kill and use animals when it’s completely unnecessary to do so. So, it’s not that they didn’t like the taste, it’s that they didn’t like participating in the senseless killing of animals when we know that nutritionally, animal foods serve no purpose to live healthfully. In fact, it actually benefits us to avoid them. Not to mention it’s arguably the single-most important thing one person can do to protect the environment.

If the familiar tastes and textures of animal foods can be replicated from 100 percent plant-based sources, there then exists no moral dilemma against consuming the food at hand. (If you believe “plants have feelings too,” maybe you should read this.) Vegans are in no way being hypocritical, or proving they are suppressing their desires by eating “fake” meats. In fact, they are being morally consistent and enjoying their food just like everyone else, sans the animal products."

 

[8ball]

Not sure why you posted that, but I never had any issue with meat substitutes. It's bollocks that animals foods serve no purpose to live healthfully, but that's a side point.

In terms of substitutes, though, where would you stand on something that was made from animal flesh that was entirely cultured in vitro?

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Not sure why you posted that, but I never had any issue with meat substitutes. It's bollocks that animals foods serve no purpose to live healthfully, but that's a side point.

That wasn't aimed at you in particular, just a response to the common criticism that vegans really want to eat meat and cheese and are just in denial.

In terms of substitutes, though, where would you stand on something that was made from animal flesh that was entirely cultured in vitro?

It is not something that appeals to me at all and I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. Given that there is such a massive variety of tastes and textures available with fruits, veg, grains, nuts, seeds, legumes, herbs and spices, I don't really see the need for "cultured meat", and even the idea of it makes me want to heave.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

This is true. Hence me thinking of cutting the worst stuff first (which I'm guessing is the chicken).
Just need to find something else with the right nutrient set for lunch...

Trust me it is a lot easier to do now that it was even 10 years ago. Once you've take the time to make an informed decision imo you will be more likely to seek out and pick the foods that line up with your ethics and morals. There's an overwhelming amount of resources out there to help you whenever you're ready to tap into it.

 

[8ball]

That wasn't aimed at you in particular, just a response to the common criticism that vegans really want to eat meat and cheese and are just in denial.

Fair enough. Though if I was vegan I *would* really want to eat meat and cheese.
Fully aware that most don't, though.

It is not something that appeals to me at all and I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. Given that there is such a massive variety of tastes and textures available with fruits, veg, grains, nuts, seeds, legumes, herbs and spices, I don't really see the need for "cultured meat", and even the idea of it makes me want to heave.

That's interesting. Do you do other substitutes, and do you think that feeling would be shared among most vegans (substitutes or not). Aand would it possibly be to do with associations you have with the actual meat? Because for me it's the animal welfare and environmental shizz that would nudge me in a vegan-ish/veggie-ish direction and if I could eat the stuff I like without those issues then I would.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I will have to treat myself to vegan cheese over the Yule hostilities.

It's a slippery slope, cheese. In 2003 after 20 years vegan, I decided I would start catching and eating fish. The catching part was necessarily a token gesture because I'm a long way from the sea and I didn't fancy what I could catch in the local river and canal ...

Cheese, eggs and dairy snuck in with fish products I bought, rather than made myself, and the seasonal Camembert that went so well with French wine turned into a regular indulgence. I even bought a few Margerita pizzas ...

I can see it being a significant issue when I move to France and get invited out for the odd aperitif (it's my intention to make an effort to be sociable).

(Eating fish is almost a given- I turn into dolphin mode just watching David Attenborough on TV - let alone when I'm living near the sea.)

Yeah dead fish and stinky cheese, such wonderful aromas.
I guess not being a big fan of either of those made it easier for me to transition away and I don't miss them at all.

As for the social side, tbh I don't really see my food choices as being any kind of impediment to social interactions or a barrier to me fitting in. I've spent time working various European locations and it hasn't stopped me from mixing and has sometimes led to interesting conversations.

 

[8ball]

Yeah dead fish and stinky cheese, such wonderful aromas.

<gets tuna melt panini from canteen>...

 

[PaoloSanchez]

That's interesting. Do you do other substitutes, and do you think that feeling would be shared among most vegans (substitutes or not).

tbh, I don't really think of veggie burgers, sausages as "substitutes", just food that tastes at least reasonable, isn't going to kill me and is in line with my ethics and morals. I don't really see them as meat alternatives, just as food.

I'm not sure what most vegans feel, but I suspect that many would be a bit wary and have a preference for more natural foods that didn't originate in a petri dish or a laboratory produced by men/women in white coats. There are some who won't have a problem with it in principle if it means that no animals are harmed. There's the occasional bit of hype in the news about this but it's not something that I pay much attention to tbh and don't particularly find it interesting.

Aand would it possibly be to do with associations you have with the actual meat? Because for me it's the animal welfare and environmental shizz that would nudge me in a vegan-ish/veggie-ish direction and if I could eat the stuff I like without those issues then I would.

Indeed animal welfare is a major part of the deal for me too, but there are also other important considerations two of them being health and environment. If there is no need to consume animals products from a health perspective then I don't really see the need to try and artificially create meat, especially given that the characteristics of freshly killed "meat" is not that appealing to many of us anyway and we often end up changing it to make it more palatable. (For reference The Biology of Disgust.)

 

[PaoloSanchez]

<gets tuna melt panini from canteen>...

By the time it gets to that stage most of the pongy smells have been cooked out. Walking past a fishmonger though makes me want to...

...vomit.

(edited for the squeamish )

 

[mojo pixy]

That's a horrible gif. Could you not just write ''It makes me want to puke'' ?

 

[8ball]

That's a horrible gif. Could you not just write ''It makes me want to puke'' ?

Though tbf the colour and texture does specify quite accurately that it is vegan puke.

 

[mojo pixy]

I think it's fake puke really. Pretend puke, but not done quite well enough for that not to show.

 

[mojo pixy]

To push that further away, and since it's the season, and to show willing for the cause, here is a site where you can check if your drinky is right on or filthy scum:

Barnivore: your vegan wine, beer, and liquor guide

 

[PaoloSanchez]

"Now if this was supposed to be food, natural food that we are supposed to eat, why does it make us feel sick to see how it's produced?"

 

[A380]

What about honey?

Just asking.

 

[gentlegreen]

I'm starting to dislike vegans as much as I do cyclists ...

I've unsubscribed from several youtubers recently.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I'm starting to dislike vegans as much as I do cyclists ...

Well, looks like you'll find plenty of similarly minded folk in this forum. I have a rather thick skin and try to not pay too much attention to the vegan hate especially as there is so much that is positive to look forward to.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

What about honey?

Just asking.

I was never a big fan of honey anyway. Some vegans are ok with honey and some aren't and don't consider it vegan.

See what your ethics is comfortable with and go with that. Honey is one of those grey areas and not as clear cut as livestock, poultry, dairy, eggs and fish are. Even fish were fair game and it would appear that a lot of people consider them to be a bit like swimming vegetables. "Oh you're vegetarian...but you eat fish right? ...and what about chicken?" (fish and chicken...those well known vegetables )

 

[bellaozzydog]

I went vegan for 18 months, no meat, dairy, fish, eggs. Also went glutton free.

It was for health reasons (psoriatic arthritis)

A side effect is that I feel ethically better that I'm not Helping the meat industry killing sentient creatures

However I moved back to eating fish recently. Either sustainable fish or fish I catch myself.

I mix with a lot of vegans and have basically stopped disclosing my diet at all as I just seem to upset them in one way or another whatever I tell them. A key point is that I was never vegan as I wear leather etc.

I also do a lot of yoga and meditation and in discussion seem to be a red flag to a lot of yoga and meditation goons. My position being yoga/meditation/breathing is very good for you but I don't accept the mumbo jumbo mysticism they bang on about.

I run in to trouble with the dog rescue crew as well having differing opinions

I'm not a contrary, argumentative type and not insensitive but there are a lot of passionate people out there

So I basically shut the fuck up and find something less controversial like the weather to chat about

 

[NoXion]

I don't think that I could go glutton free, I enjoy pigging out too much.

 

[8ball]

I mix with a lot of vegans and have basically stopped disclosing my diet at all as I just seem to upset them in one way or another whatever I tell them....

... I do a lot of yoga and meditation and in discussion seem to be a red flag to a lot of yoga and meditation goons.

Veganism and yoga without the religion would be a good thing.

 

[mojo pixy]

See what your ethics is comfortable with and go with that.

Have you fallen ill suddenly?

 

[gentlegreen]

I was never a big fan of honey anyway. Some vegans are ok with honey and some aren't and don't consider it vegan.

See what your ethics is comfortable with and go with that. Honey is one of those grey areas and not as clear cut as livestock, poultry, dairy, eggs and fish are. Even fish were fair game and it would appear that a lot of people consider them to be a bit like swimming vegetables. "Oh you're vegetarian...but you eat fish right? ...and what about chicken?" (fish and chicken...those well known vegetables )

Unnatural Vegan is the only one I bother watching much these days - she gets so much crap for being OK with GM food and non-organic / non-raw etc.
What I hate most is the prevarication around B12 supplementation from the likes of the "Hippy Healthy vegans".
I've just stopped watching Pam Popper because she's started to stray into anti-vax territory.

 

[sleaterkinney]

One of my friends has his vegan mother-in-law coming around for Christmas dinner.

 

[8ball]

Unnatural Vegan is the only one I bother watching much these days - she gets so much crap for being OK with GM food and non-organic / non-raw etc.
What I hate most is the prevarication around B12 supplementation from the likes of the "Hippy Healthy vegans".
I've just stopped watching Pam Popper because she's started to stray into anti-vax territory.

It's a shame in that it makes it so easy to discredit any decent arguments (such as the Santa Claus argument, obv) by pointing to the many associations with utter nonsense.