Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[Proper Tidy]

Tbf we'll never know what came first, the burger or the bun. Which was made to fit which, a mystery

 

[BristolEcho]

It does but I know how much effort goes into making the food look like meat

I don't like the cruelty and always try to but free range meat and eggs. The problem is, free range meat is very expensive so I don't always do that.
Indecently, I worked with a veggie and he always said that we shouldn't eat anything with eyes. being flippant, I asked him if he ate spuds. he went ballistic. Now that is what gets the back of meat eaters up. They need to lighten up and laugh along with everyone. I was a veggie for a while but found bacon on toast too hard to give up so I ate veggie and bacon butties.

Your mate sounds like an idiot. At the same time though I've come across loads of meat eaters that get upset at my choice to not eat meat. I personally don't care what they do.

 

[nyxx]

1. What kind of a snowflake can’t cope with the suggestion that they improve their manners

2. What do you think cattle are fed on

3. What makes you think it’s my responsibility to persuade anyone to change their dietary habits. It’s up to you what you do.

4. I’m not even vegan I just don’t kid myself that when I consume dairy I’m somehow not complicit in cruelty

 

[karanight]

I really think a burger shape, which is the logical shape to fit in a bun (as has been mentioned) does not take 'so much effort'. Do you really think it takes a lot of effort?! How do you think it should be shaped

As mentioned, I was a veggie for a while and yes we made 'burgers' that looked like meat from soya. It was the waste from soya after making tofu, (which we didn't like)
After creating burger shaped lumps of soya we cooked them and ate them on buns. The 'burgers' we made were a bugga to get them to stay as one. How stupid was that. The next time we cooked the soya waste we just had it as it was. It was then that I realised how daft it all is to make veg look like meat. By all means make the food convenient to eat but going to the effort of making it look like meat and even telling friends that it taste like meat is a bit ridiculous. If you want meat eaters to stop eating meat tell them how great the food is. Veggie food can be awesome but lots of my friends that are veggie don't go to the effort of making great veggie food, they go and buy cardboard from the big food stores and eat that
How can you say that veggie bacon is right. It's either veg or meat
I do agree that we eat too much meat though

 

[karanight]

Your mate sounds like an idiot. At the same time though I've come across loads of meat eaters that get upset at my choice to not eat meat. I personally don't care what they do.

My mate was an idiot but unfortunately most fanatics are.
As to why meat eaters getting upset because you won't eat meat is a bit like smokers trying their level best to get someone trying to give it up to carry on smoking. Then same can be said for drinkers. We all just got to be ourselves

 

[8ball]

Your mate sounds like an idiot. At the same time though I've come across loads of meat eaters that get upset at my choice to not eat meat. I personally don't care what they do.

Getting upset at someone not eating something is pretty weird tbf.

With certain rare exceptions (if your friend only eats carrots and gets sick that’s a bit different).

 

[gentlegreen]

Shaping things into patties can make it convenient to cook, carry and deploy.
And there's a reason we tend to prefer toast to muesli at least some of the time.
Though if I did have a lot of okara floating around, I suppose I might well lightly cook it and then chuck it in a stir-fry rather than trying to make it stick together with something calorific.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

So, apparently, making veg "look like meat" (whatever that means) is a bit daft. Respectfully I disagree with that viewpoint.
Dr Milton Mills summed this up quite well I thought in his talk about the "Biology of disgust".

"The reason humans first skin, pluck and bleed, and then cut and shape animal flesh into smooth, rounded, hand-sized objects is so that it will mimic edible plant parts and thereby circumvent our innate disgust response!"

Most of the meat that is bought in supermarkets is several steps removed and disguised from it's true origins, which is rather convenient because otherwise I suspect that many would find it off putting. Bloody rotting animal flesh isn't really that appealing which is probably why the meat marketers give those images a wide berth.

I think it's ok to make plant based burgers, bacon, nuggets, milks etc. Why not?

Most would agree that wholefoods are on the whole healthier than processed, however I'm not sure why making a plant based burger taste similar to a meat based one should be an issue, or "daft".

 

[Pickman's model]

So, apparently, making veg "look like meat" (whatever that means) is a bit daft. Respectfully I disagree with that viewpoint.
Dr Milton Mills summed this up quite well I thought in his talk about the "Biology of disgust".

"The reason humans first skin, pluck and bleed, and then cut and shape animal flesh into smooth, rounded, hand-sized objects is so that it will mimic edible plant parts and thereby circumvent our innate disgust response!"

Most of the meat that is bought in supermarkets is several steps removed and disguised from it's true origins, which is rather convenient because otherwise I suspect that many would find it off putting. Bloody rotting animal flesh isn't really that appealing which is probably why the meat marketers give those images a wide berth.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

sounds a bit Clash like.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Dr Milton Mills summed this up quite well I thought in his talk about the "Biology of disgust".

"The reason humans first skin, pluck and bleed, and then cut and shape animal flesh into smooth, rounded, hand-sized objects is so that it will mimic edible plant parts and thereby circumvent our innate disgust response!"

Dr Milton sounds like a complete fucking idiot. The reason we cut meat into the shapes and sizes we cut them into is because that's the shape and size they are on the animal

 

[JimW]

Never grab a pig by the sausage.

 

[Funky_monks]

Dr Milton sounds like a complete fucking idiot. The reason we cut meat into the shapes and sizes we cut them into is because that's the shape and size they are on the animal

I was about to ask what field of study Dr Milton was in.
We bleed animals to stop the meat spoiling.
We pluck them because feathers are inedible, as is the skin of larger animals (where skin is edible, we tend to leave it on see: birds). Both feathers and skins are very useful made into other things, which is probably why we started doing it.
What cuts of an animal look like plants?
Smaller animals are often cooked whole (Rabbits, most birds) and look very much like an animal.
Does a leg of lamb look like anything else? A shoulder of pork?
Even highly trimmed cuts look like meat, and are the shape they are because that's the shape they grow in.....

 

[Rivendelboy]

"The reason humans first skin, pluck and bleed, and then cut and shape animal flesh into smooth, rounded, hand-sized objects is so that it will mimic edible plant parts and thereby circumvent our innate disgust response!"

certainly we live in a culture concerned with the aesthetics of food, but I don't think I agree with this statement at all. WE prepare meat for a variety of reasons, not least of all because shoving a cow into the cooker is a bit difficult.

I wouldn't say cut and prepared meat resembles plants at all. I've never thought so

 

[8ball]

"The reason humans first skin, pluck and bleed, and then cut and shape animal flesh into smooth, rounded, hand-sized objects is so that it will mimic edible plant parts and thereby circumvent our innate disgust response!"

Real urbans.

 

[existentialist]

It does but I know how much effort goes into making the food look like meat

I don't like the cruelty and always try to but free range meat and eggs. The problem is, free range meat is very expensive so I don't always do that.
Indecently, I worked with a veggie and he always said that we shouldn't eat anything with eyes. being flippant, I asked him if he ate spuds. he went ballistic. Now that is what gets the back of meat eaters up. They need to lighten up and laugh along with everyone. I was a veggie for a while but found bacon on toast too hard to give up so I ate veggie and bacon butties.

I use the eyes thing, and I've had the same smartarse response. I then qualify it by pointing out that it is necessary for the eyes to be able to follow you around the room.

It is possible to be a vegetarian and still have a sense of humour, despite widely accepted belief

 

[Artaxerxes]

Dr Milton sounds like a complete fucking idiot. The reason we cut meat into the shapes and sizes we cut them into is because that's the shape and size they are on the animal

 

[Poot]

I use the eyes thing, and I've had the same smartarse response. I then qualify it by pointing out that it is necessary for the eyes to be able to follow you around the room.

It is possible to be a vegetarian and still have a sense of humour, despite widely accepted belief

Because of their unusual ability to twist their neck 180 degrees, owls can look you in the eye while you microwave them.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I've never seen the inside of a fairy.

 

[gentlegreen]

Hearts are actually bum shapes - QI-type FACT.

 

[8ball]

Something has gone horribly wrong here:

 

[Proper Tidy]

Trying to think of a natural plant form that looks like a burger or a nugget

 

[8ball]

Trying to think of a natural plant form that looks like a burger or a nugget

Small potatoes are kind of nuggety.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Small potatoes are kind of nuggety.

True although lack the two sided flatness. I suppose a corncob could be nature's sausage

 

[Combustible]

Dr Milton Mills summed this up quite well I thought in his talk about the "Biology of disgust".

"The reason humans first skin, pluck and bleed, and then cut and shape animal flesh into smooth, rounded, hand-sized objects is so that it will mimic edible plant parts and thereby circumvent our innate disgust response!"

Dr Milton Mill's seems to have a very narrow definition of human behaviour. For example in Chinese cuisine, a large amount of highly recognizable animal parts are served, including animals' heads, organs, feet, claws, and a lot of meat on the bone. Why aren't all these Chinese people trying to circumvent their innate disgust response?

 

[Proper Tidy]

I have seen (might have been on here) a ham fanny, I remember it was upsetting

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I was about to ask what field of study Dr Milton was in.
We bleed animals to stop the meat spoiling.
We pluck them because feathers are inedible, as is the skin of larger animals (where skin is edible, we tend to leave it on see: birds). Both feathers and skins are very useful made into other things, which is probably why we started doing it.
What cuts of an animal look like plants?
Smaller animals are often cooked whole (Rabbits, most birds) and look very much like an animal.
Does a leg of lamb look like anything else? A shoulder of pork?
Even highly trimmed cuts look like meat, and are the shape they are because that's the shape they grow in.....

I'm not sure if his field of study is relevant tbh,
The presentation on the biology of disgust gives context behind what I quoted from his talk, and I don't believe he was trying to say that we are trying to make a cow look exactly like a carrot.

The main theme behind what he was saying is that in order for many of us to eat meat and not be disgusted by it we have to heavily modify it by giving it more plant like qualities.

The comment about it being daft to "make veg look/taste like meat" is rather curious because it would appear that we spend quite a lot of time and energy distancing meat from it's true origins. What animal does a burger, a nugget, a slice of ham, or a rasher of bacon look like?

The sort of tastes textures and smells associated with dead flesh that would cause an obligate carnivore/omnivore to salivate and drool appears to not quite have the same effect on us, until it is seasoned, cooked, dried or preserved.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Honestly Paulo I don't think this is right. For instance, all farmers and butchers would be vegan.

 

[Funky_monks]

I'm not sure if his field of study is relevant tbh,
The presentation on the biology of disgust gives context behind what I quoted from his talk, and I don't believe he was trying to say that we are trying to make a cow look exactly like a carrot.

The main theme behind what he was saying is that in order for many of us to eat meat and not be disgusted by it we have to heavily modify it by giving it more plant like qualities.

The comment about it being daft to "make veg look/taste like meat" is rather curious because it would appear that we spend quite a lot of time and energy distancing meat from it's true origins. What animal does a burger, a nugget, a slice of ham, or a rasher of bacon look like?

The sort of tastes textures and smells associated with dead flesh that would cause an obligate carnivore/omnivore to salivate and drool appears to not quite have the same effect on us, until it is seasoned, cooked, dried or preserved.

What's plant-like about any of the cuts of meat I mentioned please?
Cutting meat into smaller portions is a direct response to a change in lifestyle- people have less time to cook now. Go back barely a generation and legs of lamb, belly, chops with the rib on, shoulders of lamb/mutton/pork, rib of beef, whole roast poultry, trotters, offal, cow heel etc etc was not unusual.

Its utter bollocks of the highest order.

Cooking meat doesn't make it plant-like either, but what it does do is make it much safer to eat, so presumably, preferring it like that confers a significant evolutionary advantage.

His field of study is incredibly relevant, because he's clearly no idea what he's talking about, so if his field of study is unrelated to biology/ecology/anthropology etc he isn't a total moron.

 

[MickiQ]

I have been to more one Hog Roast and it is clearly obvious that the star attraction was once a pig, I've never seen anyone respond in disgust (I certainly haven't) though I suspect by the very nature of the event there are unlikely to be any vegans present.