Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[Athos]

This:



From this:


"I'm wrong and I'm moving these goalposts so I am right"

No, not at all.

Ok, so what you dispute is my claim that a meat-only diet isn't nutritionally complete?

Of course it's not; it doesn't include e.g. fibre.

Clue: even your claimed 'adequate to survive' isn't the same as 'complete.'

 

[joustmaster]

No, not at all.

Ok, so what you dispute is my claim that a meat-only diet isn't nutritionally complete?

Of course it's not; it doesn't include e.g. fibre.

Clue: even your claimed 'adequate to survive' isn't the same as 'complete.'

Is fibre a nutrient?

 

[Rivendelboy]

Looking and seeing that a food appears to have everything in it is very different to verifying by experiment, as I'm sure you know.

That said, there are plenty of cases of people living only on meat for a year, out of both circumstance and for experimental reasons.

It's that experimentation that tells us what a food contains.

Though of course individual taste and tolerance are a separate question. I think we can take that aspect as understood.

 

[8ball]

Is fibre a nutrient?

Oh dear, Athos, the keeper saw that feint a mile off.

Tbf, you should have given that one a break of a few more pages.

 

[Poot]

Surely there's no vitamin C in meat, for a start? Wouldn't you get scurvy and then your teeth would fall out and you'd have to live off tofu anyway?

 

[8ball]

Surely there's no vitamin C in meat, for a start? Wouldn't you get scurvy and then your teeth would fall out and you'd have to live off tofu anyway?

Teeny bit. If you're not eating carbs, you need a lot less vitamin C. Those sailors in the old story that led to the term "limeys" were eating meat and bread/biscuits.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Please quote the post of mine which contains an assertion which you think is wrong.

I'd like you to provide evidence for the following.

Don't eat a meat-only diet.

A meat only diet isn't nutritionally complete either.

 

[Rivendelboy]

Why would anybody not want to eat some vegetables and fruit and stuff though. What's the point. There's no ethical principle. It's just being a bellend really innit

Eating no veg makes you a 'bellend'? How so?

This.

A burger with tomato and lettuce tastes better than just a burger, a steak with mushrooms, chips, tomatoes and a bit of salad tastes better than just a steak, a Bolognese with tomatoes, celery, mushrooms and onions tastes better than just fried up mince.

Not eating fruit and vegetables has no ethical or health benefits, it's about having room-clearing, protein laden farts...

That's just taste preference. So what? The argument made by carnivores isn't based on ethics as much as health, though there are arguments made in support of proper farming practices that are wholly benefical to the environment and could well be less damaging, in terms of killing animals.

Nobody really gets ill from eating some veg though, it's bollocks isn't it. Veganism at least has an ethical consistency, people eating raw liver and living a life without a bit of onion to go with it are just weirdos. And yes bellends

Plenty of people get ill from eating veg, what a bizarre comment.

Veganism isn't ethically consistent given how crop agriculture and plant harvesting also involve animal death and displacement and can also cause environmental damage that isn't healed by the presence of livestock grazing.

You're just being childish.

 

[Athos]

Is fibre a nutrient?

Yes.

From here: Nutrient - Wikipedia

Non-essential nutrients
Non-essential nutrients are substances within foods that can have a significant impact on health; these substances can be beneficial or toxic.[medical citation needed] For example, dietary fiber is not absorbed in the human digestive tract, but is important in maintaining the bulk of a bowel movement to avoid constipation.[medical citation needed] A subset of dietary fiber, soluble fiber, can be metabolized by bacteria residing in the large intestine.[19][20][21] Soluble fiber is marketed as serving a prebiotic function – promoting "healthy" intestinal bacteria.[citation needed] Bacterial metabolism of soluble fiber also produces short-chain fatty acids like butyric acid, which may be absorbed into intestinal cells as a source of calories.[19][20][21]

 

[joustmaster]

Surely there's no vitamin C in meat, for a start? Wouldn't you get scurvy and then your teeth would fall out and you'd have to live off tofu anyway?

Liver is full of it.

 

[8ball]

I'd like you to provide evidence for the following.

It's everyone else's job to prove it *is* nutritionally complete via a process of proof that he has agreed himself is not logically possible.

It's a pretty good wind-up tbf.

 

[Athos]

I'd like you to provide evidence for the following.

That the Inuit don't eat a meat only diet: Inuit cuisine - Wikipedia

The second I've backed up above.

 

[joustmaster]

Yes.

From here: Nutrient - Wikipedia

Non-essential nutrients
Non-essential nutrients are substances within foods that can have a significant impact on health; these substances can be beneficial or toxic.[medical citation needed] For example, dietary fiber is not absorbed in the human digestive tract, but is important in maintaining the bulk of a bowel movement to avoid constipation.[medical citation needed] A subset of dietary fiber, soluble fiber, can be metabolized by bacteria residing in the large intestine.[19][20][21] Soluble fiber is marketed as serving a prebiotic function – promoting "healthy" intestinal bacteria.[citation needed] Bacterial metabolism of soluble fiber also produces short-chain fatty acids like butyric acid, which may be absorbed into intestinal cells as a source of calories.[19][20][21]

Did you just post a link that describes it as a non essential nutrient?
Mate, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make

 

[joustmaster]

That the Inuit don't eat a meat only diet: Inuit cuisine - Wikipedia

The second I've backed up above.

Some of them do, sometimes.

 

[fishfinger]

Yes.

From here: Nutrient - Wikipedia

[medical citation needed]...[medical citation needed] ...[citation needed]...

 

[gentlegreen]

I'd forgotten about that - and it's definitely important to eat the meat raw - that's also how they got enough carbs.

One of the theories is that it's actually the raw meat and fish, the main component of their diet, which does have a significant amount of Vitamin C in. The Inuit living on fresh raw meat and fresh raw fish would actually manage to get enough vitamin C, and particularly, there's a lovely traditional Inuit staple called muktuk which is the skin of the beluga whale, and this has a lot of vitamin C in it. Also, the organs of sea mammals and, apparently, the stomach contents of caribou, though I'm not sure they would actually eat that - maybe they just fed it to the dogs!

How do Inuit cope without fresh vegetables and vitamin C?

 

[joustmaster]

lol @ citation needed

 

[Athos]

Did you just post a link that describes it as a non essential nutrient?
Mate, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make

You don't seem to understand the difference between being nutritionally complete (which is what I disputed), and something being a non-essential nutirent.

 

[8ball]

Yes.

In the sense of being something that some organisms can use for nourishment, but goes right through us (or gets eaten by bacteria in our gut), then ... yes, I guess.

Those goalposts are looking a really odd shape now.

 

[joustmaster]

You don;t seem to understand the difference between being nutritionally complete (which is what I disputed), and something being a non-essential nutirent.

keep wheeling those goalposts. If you go far enough with them you will be able to tell yourself that you were right on the internet, and you'll be able to sleep well.

 

[Athos]

The point is that fibre is defined as a nutrient. Which is what I said that seemed to be being disputed. That requires no citation, albeit some of the further claims for it, do - claims I've not made.

 

[8ball]

You don't seem to understand the difference between being nutritionally complete (which is what I disputed), and something being a non-essential nutirent.

The fact that something is not an essential nutrient, does not mean it is a non-essential nutrient. I don't think you understand what "nutritionally complete" means either, especially with reference to non-essential nutrients.

 

[Saul Goodman]

You don't seem to understand the difference between being nutritionally complete (which is what I disputed), and something being a non-essential nutirent.

LOL!!!
If it isn't an essential nutrient, then something nutritionally complete doesn't need to contain it

 

[Athos]

keep wheeling those goalposts. If you go far enough with them you will be able to tell yourself that you were right on the internet, and you'll be able to sleep well.

As it happens I do think I was right, but I'm happy to agree to disagree. Because I really couldn't care less whether or not you agree with me.

 

[joustmaster]

They could just eat some pig skin and chicken feathers.
There's your fibre.

 

[Athos]

LOL!!!
If it isn't an essential nutrient, then something nutritionally complete doesn't need to contain it

Lot's of sets are considered incomplete for missing non-essential elements.

But, as fun as this has been, I've got to go out now.

 

[8ball]

They could just eat some pig skin and chicken feathers.
There's your fibre.

 

[gentlegreen]

There are quite a few things which may technically not be "essential" nutrients, but which are beneficial to health - like the defensive sulphur compounds in cruciferous greens.
And the "anti-nutrients" cited accusingly by the paleo crowd are being found to have benefits.

The super-high fibre traditional diet of Ugandans has been correlated with their almost non-existent bowel diverticula and super-low coronary heart disease.

 

[8ball]

There are quite a few things which may technically not be "essential" nutrients, but which are beneficial to health - like the defensive sulphur compounds in cruciferous greens.
And the "anti-nutrients" cited accusingly by the paleo crowd are being found to have benefits.

They are "not essential nutrients". They are not "non-essential nutrients".

Dammit!

 

[Proper Tidy]

Eating no veg makes you a 'bellend'? How so?

The question that answers itself