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Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

Firstly I didn't claim or post that
Secondly I was answering your questions about form, shape and texture being changed
That is all
But you were responding to a question that was specifically asked to another poster, having quoted his post which contextualised the question. If you're going to butt in and speak for someone else, at least do him the courtesy of reading and understanding what you're responding to rather than just shrieking out unhelpful words.
 
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I'll watch the vid tomorrow because someone's sleeping next to me now, but you mentioned this before.
Don't feel obliged to watch it, it's nearly an hour and a half long, although imo it's well worth the watch if you can spare the time and are interested enough.

Give some examples of form, taste, and texture, of meat being changed.
I'm not sure I understand your question. You can pick practically any meat that you'll see in Sainsbury's for starters. Nearly all meat that is eaten by modern non primitive man is not raw, bloody and still warm which is how most genuine meat eaters consume theirs. Practically all our meat is substantially changed from it's original form, presumably to make it palatable and less "off putting". I suppose chicken would be the closest to a whole animal that you'might see in sainsbury's and some fish. The orientals appear to be less squeamish than us western folk on these matters, which is why we complain about their low standards of "animal welfare". Maybe they are a bit more honest about what they do and don't try to hide it.

How often do you see this sort of thing...



ps, as if to illustrate the point, this video gets a "Content Warning". Why should natural meat eaters need a content warning?

upload_2017-7-12_1-45-31.png
 
...

tl;dr "Although people often eat meat, WE REALLY DON'T LIKE IT, and that's why we are compelled to change it's form, taste, and texture to make it acceptable and palatable".

imo there's more than just a ring of truth to that.

What about vegetables? Some are fine raw, but I wouldn't much fancy eating raw potato or turnip, and we do really quite a lot of processing to things like wheat to make it into pasta or bread.
 
I'm not sure I understand your question. You can pick practically any meat that you'll see in Sainsbury's for starters. Nearly all meat that is eaten by modern non primitive man is not raw, bloody and still warm which is how most genuine meat eaters consume theirs. Practically all our meat is substantially changed from it's original form, presumably to make it palatable and less "off putting". I suppose chicken would be the closest to a whole animal that you'might see in sainsbury's and some fish. The orientals appear to be less squeamish than us western folk on these matters, which is why we complain about their low standards of "animal welfare". Maybe they are a bit more honest about what they do and don't try to hide it.
All of that is for convenience though, with the exception of not eating meat raw. But you're not seriously using that to support "we don't really like it" are you?
 
What about vegetables? Some are fine raw, but I wouldn't much fancy eating raw potato or turnip, and we do really quite a lot of processing to things like wheat to make it into pasta or bread.
Pah, beat me to it.

Does the fact that we cook many vegetables mean "we don't really like them"?
 
I think there's an element of truth to this and a bit of conditioning is involved. People can get accustomed to seeing certain things and become immune. In the west it is true that we are mostly shielded from death blood and gore and are not used to seeing it, however I think that is part of our true evolved nature to be repulsed by those things.

People aren't all that squeamish - hunting and fishing for food are still reasonably popular in Western countries, and lots of people prefer their steaks bloody. Most people who grew up in the countryside will probably have shot a few rabbits etc. for food at some point.
 
Deluded eh? Wow. Well we'll have to disagree on what you described as "total nonsense". I genuinely do think that many carnists do feel at least a bit uncomfortable with how their choice of food gets on to their plates, and I believe that there's plenty of evidence to support that. This is one of the reasons that so much of the meat products don't look anything like the animal from which they came and so much effort goes into disguising the origins, changing the names, hiding the conditions that they are kept in and of course not many people want to see how their food is killed. This is why you won't find any school trips to abattoirs. Wouldn't want those pesky kids going all soft and veganised, eh? For the most part in the civilised west, people are very much shielded from the brutal reality of where their meat comes from, and I'm willing to bet that most people wouldn't want to see it. A fair number of those that do eventually get a glimpse of the reality are affected by it and will at least think more about what they eat. Of course there are hard core meat munchers who will dig their heels in. That's their prerogative I suppose. It won't stop me from expressing my opinion.
It can actually work the other way, people don't know how meat is produced and scare videos fill the gap, which aren't the reality at all. I think being exposed to how farming really is would lead to less veggies, not more.
 
It can actually work the other way, people don't know how meat is produced and scare videos fill the gap, which aren't the reality at all. I think being exposed to how farming really is would lead to less veggies, not more.

Most meat comes from factory farms, I'd be very surprised if anybody with doubts about eating meat visited an industrial-scale pig or chicken farm and left more likely to eat meat than before. As for slaughterhouses, just living within earshot of one was enough to put a lot of people I know off eating pork.
 
Most meat comes from factory farms, I'd be very surprised if anybody with doubts about eating meat visited an industrial-scale pig or chicken farm and left more likely to eat meat than before. As for slaughterhouses, just living within earshot of one was enough to put a lot of people I know off eating pork.

Indeed, I worked on a farm when I left school and that laid the foundation for me going vegan some 20 yrs ago. Some of the things I saw and did were pretty horrific really. I also went to farming college and we had to wring a chicken's neck then cook and eat it, which to be honest, I did do without many qualms at the time.

We also visited a slaughterhouse, getting an insiders insight most people will probably never see, happily for them.Some of the things I saw stayed with me for years, honestly. When I finally went vegan, I was living in a small bumpkin town in north warwickshire, it caused me loads of trouble with the natives, especially with the local hunt, who are a bunch of violent wankers even by hunters low standards (tbf I was a known 'anti' at that point). Anyway, nowadays, I reckon veganism is quite easy, back then it was all plamil milk and sos-mix (I eat a lot of fake meat type food.)
 
Was in India recently and there was meat available everywhere. In Maharashitra beef was recently banned, but it was a available in Goa and Rajasthan if you wanted it and of course spicy chicken was offered everywhere.
 
And local to us are the lammas lands where cows are grazed from March to June, right in the town centre, the kids enjoy patting them on their way to school. Then one day two weeks ago they were gone, then the Farncombe butcher had a sign outside, Godalming Water-Meadow Beef available.

Very tasty steaks :thumbs:
 
Indeed, I worked on a farm when I left school and that laid the foundation for me going vegan some 20 yrs ago. Some of the things I saw and did were pretty horrific really. I also went to farming college and we had to wring a chicken's neck then cook and eat it, which to be honest, I did do without many qualms at the time.

We also visited a slaughterhouse, getting an insiders insight most people will probably never see, happily for them.Some of the things I saw stayed with me for years, honestly. When I finally went vegan, I was living in a small bumpkin town in north warwickshire, it caused me loads of trouble with the natives, especially with the local hunt, who are a bunch of violent wankers even by hunters low standards (tbf I was a known 'anti' at that point). Anyway, nowadays, I reckon veganism is quite easy, back then it was all plamil milk and sos-mix (I eat a lot of fake meat type food.)

Thank you Lorca. People like you give me hope.
 
Most meat comes from factory farms, I'd be very surprised if anybody with doubts about eating meat visited an industrial-scale pig or chicken farm and left more likely to eat meat than before. As for slaughterhouses, just living within earshot of one was enough to put a lot of people I know off eating pork.
This has gone down a different path now. Few meat eaters would condone many industrial meat production practices. Many are extremely selective about the meat they purchase for those very reasons. But the vegan proposal goes way further than that, doesn't it?
 
What about vegetables? Some are fine raw, but I wouldn't much fancy eating raw potato or turnip, and we do really quite a lot of processing to things like wheat to make it into pasta or bread.
The same thing applies raw potatoes and turnips for most people are not palatable. There are plenty fruits, leafy greens and some vegetables that can be eaten in their "natural" state. There appears to be an inverse relationship between the amount of processing that goes into what we call "food" and the state of our health and the health of the animals that we look after.

All of that is for convenience though, with the exception of not eating meat raw. But you're not seriously using that to support "we don't really like it" are you?
Pah, beat me to it.

Does the fact that we cook many vegetables mean "we don't really like them"?
Again, without watching the whole video and the explanation, you're missing out on the full context. The sight and smell of a raw potato or turnip does not create the sort of physiological response as the sight of a dead animal with bloody entrails hanging out. A natural meat eater would be salivating at the sight of fresh kill and ready to tuck in (without a knife and fork) whereas many civilised non-savage humans would be ready to puke up.

Of all the arguments being presented here "but you have to cook the meat" seems to be the most ridiculous yet.
Well you would say that wouldn't you. Again as I said to the spymaster just now, it's not just about the cooking.
 
My own bottom line has always been "am I prepared to do it myself ?" - which has always limited me to fish - and I have just discovered a technique which I will try to apply in future if my diet moves from vegan to seagan as I suspect it will once I get a whiff of the sea.

iki Jime | HUMANE KILLING OF FISH - FRESHWATER - ESTUARY - OFFSHORE Maximum quality, minimum fuss.

I still don't know what to do about oysters - though there are some out there arguing they're hardly more sentient than plants :hmm:
 
The same thing applies raw potatoes and turnips for most people are not palatable. There are plenty fruits, leafy greens and some vegetables that can be eaten in their "natural" state. There appears to be an inverse relationship between the amount of processing that goes into what we call "food" and the state of our health and the health of the animals that we look after.



Again, without watching the whole video and the explanation, you're missing out on the full context. The sight and smell of a raw potato or turnip does not create the sort of physiological response as the sight of a dead animal with bloody entrails hanging out. A natural meat eater would be salivating at the sight of fresh kill and ready to tuck in (without a knife and fork) whereas many civilised non-savage humans would be ready to puke up.

Well you would say that wouldn't you. Again as I said to the spymaster just now, it's not just about the cooking.
I was going to watch your video today but I thought it was a minute and a half, not an hour and a half!

I haven't watched it but I'm assuming from your comments that the thrust is that we are not natural meat eaters, is that the case?
 
This rubbish about cooking is dangerous nonsense. We have evolved alongside our ability to cook and otherwise break down the chemicals in our foods to such an extent that a human eating a wholly raw diet (no cooking, pickling, curing or marinading) will very quickly become ill. We need to begin the digestion process for at least some of our diet before the food enters our bodies. We have found various methods of doing this, and due to using these methods, we have over time evolved to depend on them, as is the way with evolution.

Attacking the eating of a foodstuff because we have to cook it before we can eat it is unscientific twaddle.
 
A natural meat eater would be salivating at the sight of fresh kill and ready to tuck in (without a knife and fork) whereas many civilised non-savage humans would be ready to puke up..
Humans are flexible omnivores, capable of thriving on a very wide variety of diets, which was one of the key reasons why humans were able to spread right across the globe. Not 'natural meat eaters'? Really? Tell that to the Inuit, and while you're at it, explain to them how it was that their ancestors were able to colonise the frozen north. I'm not going to watch your video because everything you say about it suggests that it is complete and utter bullshit. And offensive bullshit at that.
 
This rubbish about cooking is dangerous nonsense. We have evolved alongside our ability to cook and otherwise break down the chemicals in our foods to such an extent that a human eating a wholly raw diet (no cooking, pickling, curing or marinading) will very quickly become ill. We need to begin the digestion process for at least some of our diet before the food enters our bodies. We have found various methods of doing this, and due to using these methods, we have over time evolved to depend on them, as is the way with evolution.

Attacking the eating of a foodstuff because we have to cook it before we can eat it is unscientific twaddle.
Not that I disagree that cooking is generally a very good thing, but there are plenty of healthy raw foodists.

The most curious thing I recently learned is that the two veggies that benefit most from cooking are carrots and celery :)
 
Few are extremely selective, the vast majority will eat factory farmed meat without a second thought
Many are extremely selective, in fact most that I know. An entire sub-industry relies on it. However, the "vast majority" simply can't afford to be, and their social conditioning has meant that they are thoroughly omnivorous. Are you going to tell a struggling mum that her kids shouldn't eat cheap meat (or meat at all)?
 
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