Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[ddraig]

Well this is a fallacy. Sure individuals have been wound up on occasion, that happens with most topics here, but more often than not the abuse and snipeyness comes from your side. Most of the times that I can recall it's been about you taking things uber-personally and losing it a bit. All that's required then are a few well placed needles to get you really throwing your toys out of the pram.

This carnist fragility thing you keep banging on about, what is it?

i know you're a wind up merchant but that is simply not true

carnist fragility is the fragileness of the likes of you bees, frank and others who go crazy when their "normality" is challenged. And the grief vegis and vegans get just for having a different diet and ethical choices

 

[Spymaster]

carnist fragility is the fragileness of the likes of you bees, frank and others who go crazy when their "normality" is challenged.

How does this craziness manifest itself, and in what way is the "normality" challenged?

 

[ddraig]

How does this craziness manifest itself, and in what way is the "normality" challenged?

read the thread, and the others you and they do this shit on, it's all there

 

[SpookyFrank]

You'all do realize that you've been had by the OP?

I didn't get where I am today by reading threads.

 

[SpookyFrank]

i know you're a wind up merchant but that is simply not true

carnist fragility is the fragileness of the likes of you bees, frank and others who go crazy when their "normality" is challenged. And the grief vegis and vegans get just for having a different diet and ethical choices

I don't eat meat so I don't have amy fragility about it.

 

[bimble]

This food-tribe boring identity bollocks is so crap and pointless. It helps nobody. My boyfriend has been a strict veggie since he was 10 but cooks a mean steak for friends sometimes.

 

[Spymaster]

read the thread, and the others you and they do this shit on, it's all there

Can't you just summarise it, as you see it? This thread was a troll from the OP. Nobody took it seriously. It certainly hasn't challenged anyone's normality.

Do you think that meat-eaters secretly want to be vegan and feel guilty, so abhor criticism. Or something? I'm still not getting carnist fragility.

 

[Pickman's model]

Can't you just summarise it, as you see it? This thread was a troll from the OP. Nobody took it seriously. It certainly hasn't challenged anyone's normality.

Do you think that meat-eaters secretly want to be vegan and feel guilty, so abhor criticism. Or something? I'm still not getting carnist fragility.

wait till you've had a couple more pints, pa, and a doner on the way home. i can guarantee you'll have carnist fragility in the morning.

 

[ddraig]

Can't you just summarise it, as you see it? This thread was a troll from the OP. Nobody took it seriously. It certainly hasn't challenged anyone's normality.

Do you think that meat-eaters secretly want to be vegan and feel guilty, so abhor criticism. Or something? I'm still not getting carnist fragility.

no, they don't like their "normality" challenged or to be made to feel questioned or slightly guilty in any way so go on the attack

last post now as I can see you're trying to catch me out and it's all tedious and predictable

 

[Spymaster]

wait till you've had a couple more pints, pa, and a doner on the way home. i can guarantee you'll have carnist fragility in the morning.

A chicken vindaloo and a bottle of Merlot usually does it for me, son.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

On this we agree at least. And yeah, people will react defensively to certain complex emotive issues. As a reformed meat-eater I can speak to both sides of that. This is why anyone who genuinely cares about changing people's behaviour needs to be very careful with their language and, more importantly, their tone. I get that it's not always easy to do that when you feel passionately about something, but it's how human brains work.

You appear to be making the false assumption that my mission in life is to change peoples beliefs like one of those evangelical preachers folks. Well sorry to disappoint you but that's not what I'm about. I present my opinions and beliefs and you can take what you like and leave what you don't. I don't set out to be unfriendly or abusive to people who disagree with me, even though that seems to be one of the norms on urban75. Anyone that goes against the popular grain here appears to be fair game for abuse and mockery. If they dare to answer back then they are labelled as "disruptive".

If people see understanding, they will make an effort to understand. If they see confrontation, they'll give it back with extra mustard. And maybe it's fair to piss people off, but will it stop any animals getting eaten?

Again, you are being heavily one sided in your assessment, ignoring the large amounts of incoming mockery and piss taking that vegans deal with whilst nit picking and making a massive deal out of the use of a few words which you claim to be slurs.

 

[Spymaster]

no, they don't like their "normality" challenged or to be made to feel questioned or slightly guilty in any way so go on the attack

last post now as I can see you're trying to catch me out and it's all tedious and predictable

I'm not trying to catch you out, I just genuinely don't recognise what you're talking about. Nobody has been challenged. The message to vegans/veggies has always been overwhelmingly 'eat what the fuck you like'; perhaps with a tweak of the nose, but more often than not it's you lot who attempt to establish a moral superiority and show indignant fragility when things progress against you. There are loads of normal vegetarians and vegans on these boards who don't bother posting on these threads. They're perfectly comfortable and secure with their own dietary choices and don't feel the need to defend them or comment on those of others.

What's the difference between you and them?

 

[Pickman's model]

A chicken vindaloo and a bottle of Merlot usually does it for me, son.

it was only a few months ago it took several bottles of merlot and a curry, pa you're losing it

 

[veganomics]

i know you're a wind up merchant but that is simply not true

carnist fragility is the fragileness of the likes of you bees, frank and others who go crazy when their "normality" is challenged. And the grief vegis and vegans get just for having a different diet and ethical choices

Seriously, what is wrong with these people and their arse about face playing the victim card? What's that all about?

Out in the real world I can honestly say that I've never seen a vegan attack anybody for their choices, but I have seen plenty of "incoming". To be fair, most people on both sides of the fence are fine and respectable. I try my best not to advertise my dietary choices but it invariably comes out sooner or later when you're out for a meal with colleagues or somebody orders pizza in the office. Then the questioning starts, again most of it fairly innocent, "where do you get your protein?", "don't you have to take supplements?", "what if you were on a desert island with no fruits or vegetables around?", yada yada yada...most of the encounters I've had IRL have been fairly benign but I've also had people try and attack my choices and accuse us of child neglect based on our food choices etc.

I'm not saying that their aren't vegans out there who go over the top, but I've not met any in my travels, and I've met a lot of vegans. I've met a lot more dicks who were "normal" though.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I'm not trying to catch you out, I just genuinely don't recognise what you're talking about. Nobody has been challenged. The message to vegans/veggies has always been overwhelmingly 'eat what the fuck you like'; perhaps with a tweak of the nose, but more often than not it's you lot who attempt to establish a moral superiority and show indignant fragility when things progress against you. There are loads of normal vegetarians and vegans on these boards who don't bother posting on these threads. They're perfectly comfortable and secure with their own dietary choices and don't feel the need to defend them or comment on those of others.

What's the difference between you and them?

It would appear that some of the "normal" meat eaters in this thread are a little bit uncomfortable and insecure when the bloody reality of their dietary choices is exposed, hence the backlash and moaning about the use of the most terrible of words like "carnism", lol. This is why they would prefer it if "normal" vegetarians and vegans keep their mouth shut and "don't mention the war". Things get a bit sensitive and "confrontational" when the "war" gets mentioned.

 

[8115]

I've never met an angry vegan off the internet and I bet someone has already pointed that out.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I've never met an angry vegan off the internet and I bet someone has already pointed that out.

I'm beginning to think it's one of those meme driven internet myths.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've never met an angry vegan off the internet and I bet someone has already pointed that out.

should be a song like this for that

 

[Spymaster]

It would appear that some of the "normal" meat eaters in this thread are a little bit uncomfortable and insecure when the bloody reality of their dietary choices is exposed, hence the backlash and moaning about the use of the most terrible of words like "carnism"...

Well I think this is what ddraig was driving at but it is of course, total nonsense. If you genuinely think that meat eaters are generally in any way uncomfortable about meat-eating, you're deluded. Of course, given the choice, most would prefer to choose higher welfare, free range, organic, etc., but for many the cost is prohibitive so that's where it ends.

All that you've described as the "backlash and moaning" re carnism is just piss-taking and laughing at the silliness of it, not some angry reaction to a deadly chink you've exposed in their moral armour!

 

[8115]

I've met plenty of wanky meat-eaters though.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well I think this is what ddraig was driving at but it is of course, total nonsense. If you genuinely think that meat eaters are generally in any way uncomfortable about meat-eating, you're deluded. Of course, given the choice, most would prefer to choose higher welfare, free range, organic, etc., but for many the cost is prohibitive so that's where it ends.

All that you've described as a "backlash" above re carnism is just piss-taking and laughing at the silliness of it, not some angry reaction to a killer chink you've found in their moral armour!

the problem with so many meat eaters is that they are not uncomfortable about meat eating.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

i know you're a wind up merchant but that is simply not true

carnist fragility is the fragileness of the likes of you bees, frank and others who go crazy when their "normality" is challenged. And the grief vegis and vegans get just for having a different diet and ethical choices

The only one who goes crazy is you. Your hysterics on these threads are as predicatable as they are easy to provoke.

 

[ddraig]

as before, link us up

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

as before, link us up

Well, shall we start with this thread?

 

[ddraig]

Well, shall we start with this thread?

why not, link us a "hysterical" post i've made here

 

[Tom A]

I always thought that "carnist" was a term that those that were particularly unashamed about their ongoing decision to consume animal flesh had bestowed upon themselves.

 

[veganomics]

This food-tribe boring identity bollocks is so crap and pointless. It helps nobody. My boyfriend has been a strict veggie since he was 10 but cooks a mean steak for friends sometimes.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a discussion or debate about things that you are passionate about. I actually believe that in the long run it can be helpful and discussion and debate can and does occasionally help to facilitate meaningful change. Whether this forum is the right sort of environment for such a discussion, I'm not so sure about. It seems to be a haven for nit picking and points scoring and ganging up on people with "unpopular" opinions.

Meals in our house are either vegetarian or vegan, no steaks. Son has milk and eggs and I think eats meat when he's out. Daughter is allergic to milk but will have eggs occasionally. Wife has milk and eggs very occasionally, I am mostly vegan. There's no preaching, no shouting no trying to convince anybody. I don't raise the subject when I'm out and about unless I'm asked and I'll explain my position to those that are genuinely interested.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Why would anyone argue in favour of a thing that doesn't exist?

Meat consumption by humans exists, meat-eating-as-ideology does not.

I find this bizarre. Do you think that veganism is a belief system? It clearly is. It is a contraction of 'vegetarianism' and the -arian suffix denotes belief or concern about a specified thing. We all recognise that veganism is based around a set of beliefs about the moral status of animals (and other connected moral principles). Why wouldn't we think the same is also true of non-veganism? Flesh and bodily secretion consumption is just as much based on a system of beliefs as veganism is. This is precisely why Joy coined the term carnism - to draw attention to an invisible belief system.

 

[Spymaster]

why not, link us a "hysterical" post i've made here

Well you haven't been particularly hysterical here but you are the most prolific poster on the thread, have mentioned "carnist fragility" (whatever it is) at least four times, and have tilted at windmills and set up straw men. Nobody here really cares one iota about what you do or don't eat. Good luck to you. You just get your tail pulled because you react so deliciously.

 

[peterkro]

Meanwhile Air India goes veggie only on domestic flights, you are banned from cooking meat in lots of rental properties, meat providers are being strung up at an alarming rate, laws are being passed against cow slaughter for alsorts including the leather trade.Even very good and harmless ideas like vegetarianism can turn vile when zealots appear on the scene.I believe Bhutan is a bit rough on meat eaters too.