Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[ddraig]

It's not and it won't.

tis and yes it will

want to go round again?

 

[Pickman's model]

I've explained in some detail my objection to it.

Can you explain why you'd use 'carnist' which will not be widely understood and which is used inconsistently and ambiguously even on this one thread, as opposed to the factual, non-loaded and unambiguous 'meat eater' ?

i think it will be confused with carnies, people who work for funfairs

 

[Septimus Rufiji]

Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads. Smell like cabbage. Small hands.

 

[bimble]

i just read that worldwide meat production has tripled over the last four decades. Thats massive, a huge increase in carrion crunching. Crap use of land and resources but it does seem to be the thing that people all over the world tend to choose to do as soon as they can afford it, eat meat.

 

[veganomics]

carrion cruncher is much better than carnist, i reckon.

There seems to be a bit too much emphasis on the terms used tbh which rather conveniently diverts attention away from the issue at hand. (I like them both, but meatheads be fumin')

Is there a word along similar lines that vegans use for dairy-eating vegetarians ?

I could make a new one up if you like. Veal crate facilitators? Male calf terminators? Maybe you could come up with better ones.

 

[SpookyFrank]

tis and yes it will

want to go round again?

No but I'll put ten quid on it. I don't even know any vegans who say 'carnist' in the real world, or amywhere else come to think of it.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

you like telling people what's what and to be right and not be questioned

On many issues, yes. On this I simply don't want preaching twats telling me what I can and can't eat.

You want to live on veg? Fine by me. But I will continue to enjoy meat as long as I'm on this earth.

 

[Pickman's model]

There seems to be a bit too much emphasis on the terms used tbh which rather conveniently diverts attention away from the issue at hand. (I like them both, but meatheads be fumin')

I could make a new one up if you like. Veal crate facilitators? Male calf terminators? Maybe you could come up with better ones.

wouldn't be hard if that's the competition

 

[SpookyFrank]

I could make a new one up if you like. Veal crate facilitators? Male calf terminators? Maybe you could come up with better ones.

Cow rapists? I find people always come round to my way of thinking once I've called them a rapist a few times.

At some point you have to decide which is more important to you, animal welfare or the moral high ground. If the former, you might need to look into moderating your language. Deliberately raising people's heckles, that's not about fewer animals being harmed. It's about you.

E2a: And your slurs aren't even catchy ffs. If you want people to take the bait and get into a row with you, I suggest you invest in some rudimentary wit.

 

[ddraig]

On many issues, yes. On this I simply don't want preaching twats telling me what I can and can't eat.

You want to live on veg? Fine by me. But I will continue to enjoy meat as long as I'm on this earth.

who here has told you what to eat?

 

[PaoloSanchez]

There isn't a gameplan. People just eat what they want to eat. If you have a gameplan to change people's desires, it is going to require communication rather than adversarial nonsense.

You can't have a war if the other side isn't a side, doesn't know it's fighting and doesn't care what you do.

I respectfully disagree. There are consequences associated with people choice of food. If some people just wanted to eat human flesh because it tasted really good, most modern civilised people would agree that would definitely NOT be ok, although it might have been acceptable a few hundred years ago in certain parts of the world. I think much of the objections that meateaters have to certain words is that those words lift the veil and make more people aware of the consequences of their dietary practices.

I personally don't care for trying to convert anybody to my way of thinking. I'll present my side of the argument, and my choice of words (which may or may not include the word carnist), and others are free to take or leave whatever like or don't like. It does not have to be adversarial at all.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads. Smell like cabbage. Small hands.

Pretty sure this is not OK.

 

[pug]

Pretty sure this is not OK.

Urban Dictionary: veganazi

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

who here has told you what to eat?

Over the years on here? Plenty of people, almost certainly including you at some point.

Out in the real world I've had stand up rows with dickheads over my meat eating, particularly in my road protesting days, but then idiot hippies and that scene kinda went hand in hand

 

[SpookyFrank]

It does not have to be adversarial at all.

On this we agree at least. And yeah, people will react defensively to certain complex emotive issues. As a reformed meat-eater I can speak to both sides of that. This is why anyone who genuinely cares about changing people's behaviour needs to be very careful with their language and, more importantly, their tone. I get that it's not always easy to do that when you feel passionately about something, but it's how human brains work.

If people see understanding, they will make an effort to understand. If they see confrontation, they'll give it back with extra mustard. And maybe it's fair to piss people off, but will it stop any animals getting eaten?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I respectfully disagree. There are consequences associated with people choice of food. If some people just wanted to eat human flesh because it tasted really good, most modern civilised people would agree that would definitely NOT be ok

See, the argument against eating human flesh is easy - it involves eating people.

 

[Septimus Rufiji]

Pretty sure this is not OK.

 

[Spymaster]

Cow rapists? I find people always come round to my way of thinking once I've called them a rapist a few times.

At some point you have to decide which is more important to you, animal welfare or the moral high ground. If the former, you might need to look into moderating your language. Deliberately raising people's heckles, that's not about fewer animals being harmed. It's about you.

E2a: And your slurs aren't even catchy ffs. If you want people to take the bait and get into a row with you, I suggest you invest in some rudimentary wit.

Nobody's biting because nobody can be arsed with it any more. The moral argument can't be won by either side, nothing new or groundbreaking can be said, and it just goes round in boring old circles.

More fun just to take the piss out of each other.

 

[ddraig]

Over the years on here? Plenty of people, almost certainly including you at some point.

Out in the real world I've had stand up rows with dickheads over my meat eating, particularly in my road protesting days, but then idiot hippies and that scene kinda went hand in hand

link us up then, otherwise not true
e2a "almost certainly including you at some point."

but then you'll not back it up and just say got better things to do

 

[ddraig]

Urban Dictionary: veganazi

like feminazi init

"look someone daring to have a different opinion that goes against mine, let's ridicule and destroy them and their arguments/different way of life"

 

[Spymaster]

"look someone daring to have a different opinion that goes against mine, let's ridicule and destroy them and their arguments/different way of life"

... let's call them carnists!

 

[mrs quoad]

Militant breastfeeders eh? Struggling to think how that would work.

Being highly critical of anyone who doesn't breastfeed, seeing bottle feeding as a maternal failure, and valorising breast milk as a substance with particularly magical powers beyond anything the evidence supports.

Edit: again, I'm kinda surprised if you've spent much time around bfing / bf discussions and hadn't met a pretty hardline, unsympathetic and evangelistic fringe. Maybe that's just the circles we hang in!

 

[Pickman's model]

... let's call them carnists!

yeh. they'll be confused with carlists pa

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

You'all do realize that you've been had by the OP?

 

[ddraig]

... let's call them carnists!

oh come on, a single term isn't comparable to the massive hyperbole and abuse vegis and vegans have had on here for years by you bees and other boring knobs

highlights the carnist fragility well though
can dish it out but can't even take the smallest criticism

 

[Sue]

yeh. they'll be confused with carlists pa

Or those known for their carnal desires...

 

[veganomics]

Cow rapists? I find people always come round to my way of thinking once I've called them a rapist a few times.

How about cow baby milk stealers?

At some point you have to decide which is more important to you, animal welfare or the moral high ground. If the former, you might need to look into moderating your language. Deliberately raising people's heckles, that's not about fewer animals being harmed. It's about you.

So you are now making the big and false assumption that I am somehow out to convert people, which is nonsense. Similar to what PaoloSanchez said and I agree with him, I'll express my point of view. If you agree that's fine, if you disagree that's also fine. I find it rather funny and ironic that so called "normal" people are free to use derogatory language when describing vegans and nobody bats an eyelid, but my use of the innocuous word carnists is somehow "deliberately raising peoples heckles". What utter one sided nonsense.

E2a: And your slurs aren't even catchy ffs. If you want people to take the bait and get into a row with you, I suggest you invest in some rudimentary wit.

That's because they're not slurs, as I said earlier, they are terms of endearment, gentle ribbing and piss take. If you don't care for my word choices then you need not engage. It's not as if I am forcing you to reply, maybe you just can't help yourself. Try a bit of self control.

 

[pug]

like feminazi init

"look someone daring to have a different opinion that goes against mine, let's ridicule and destroy them and their arguments/different way of life"

veganazi
A vegan that despises gypsies and jews. Identifiable by their green swastika armbands made of organic lettuce.

 

[Spymaster]

oh come on, a single term isn't comparable to the massive hyperbole and abuse vegis and vegans have had on here for years ...

Well this is a fallacy. Sure individuals have been wound up on occasion, that happens with most topics here, but more often than not the abuse and snipeyness comes from your side. Most of the times that I can recall it's been about you taking things uber-personally and losing it a bit. All that's required then are a few well placed needles to get you really throwing your toys out of the pram.

highlights the carnist fragility well though ...

This carnist fragility thing you keep banging on about, what is it?

 

[ferrelhadley]

apex predators are only apex predators because of whatever tools they have - for us its our brain, our language, and our ability to use tools. take that away and we're just really big, really slow Dodo's - same with a Great White Shark - its an apex predator because of its size, strength, sensory capability, speed and teeth - take one of those way and its just a big Tuna.

Our key hunting skill is our endurance,. Almost everything can run faster than us, very little can run further than us.