Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[lazythursday]

But come on: the vast majority of people in the UK have no particular problem finding places that sell fruit and veg. Whether they choose to buy that or prefer to gorge on some shitty meaty fast food is up to them of course.

Of course there are all sorts of reasons why poorer people may choose to buy junk food - being time poor, plus it's often a high amount of calories for the money. It seems pretty obvious that a wholefood vegan diet is cheaper than a wholefood diet including daily meat, but I suspect that a vegan diet based around processed foods would be significantly more costly than a meat-based one. I know that when I get home tired and stressed I struggle to have the creativity to make a tasty vegan meal from scratch - it's much easier to bang some burgers in the oven.

 

[xenon]

Five a day? It's none a day in Britain's urban food deserts

Ha, that's just round the corner from me. Luckily we do have a green grocer and a couple of butchers near by, as well as a big Asda. Of course, that's not much good to your fella if disability means he can't get to those shops and carry the stuff back and doesn't have the money to shop online.

Must admit, I don't use those local shops as much as I should, partly due to disability myself. I can afford online shopping though.

 

[xenon]

On the why not eat an apple instead of X. Well, as has been said way back there <----- if you've only got a couple of quid and it's a cold day, a sausage roll / steak bake is far more appealing than an apple and bag of nuts. Now, if there were more readily available vegan fast foods, they could steal some of that market. Highly processed meat slop, the stuff in stake bakes, is cheap from the manufacturers point of view.

 

[mojo pixy]

This thread isn't really representative of anything important...

...because you like to post up all kinds of judgemental, provocative and even racist crap but won't amend it or back down even when every other poster points it out. The arrogance and stupidity is astounding...

I have no problem having discussions with valid criticisms and observations, but when it descends into petty quibbling over terminology and semantics, cba with that shit for too long.

You treat no criticism as valid, you put every opposing post down to trolling, and when you yourself run out of valid counter arguments then you start with the name calling. You're a terrible poster and ought really to be banned from this thread. Luckily for you, as a "live" vegan you have a mod (editor ) on your side so you can shitpost, insult other posters (ddraig too) even mangle other posters' names, and nothing will happen.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

But come on: the vast majority of people in the UK have no particular problem finding places that sell fruit and veg. Whether they choose to buy that or prefer to gorge on some shitty meaty fast food is up to them of course.

I don't believe that anyone is denying that there are people who genuinely struggle to feed themselves at all. As a society, we have to figure out a way to make sure that everybody is properly fed clothed and has shelter. That is one of the failings of our current economic system.

The "well not everyone can become vegan" argument is a rather weak one imo and doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. If you are unable to feed yourself properly as a vegan, it will be difficult to do so as a meat eater. Rice, beans, pasta, potatoes are relatively cheap and widely available even in the "shithole" areas.

Of course there are all sorts of reasons why poorer people may choose to buy junk food - being time poor, plus it's often a high amount of calories for the money. It seems pretty obvious that a wholefood vegan diet is cheaper than a wholefood diet including daily meat, but I suspect that a vegan diet based around processed foods would be significantly more costly than a meat-based one. I know that when I get home tired and stressed I struggle to have the creativity to make a tasty vegan meal from scratch - it's much easier to bang some burgers in the oven.

I haven't bought meat burgers for a while, however I don't think the veggie burgers nowadays are prohibitively expensive in comparison. It can be a bit of a challenge to change from well established habits, but it really isn't hard at all and quite often people will look for excuses. If you're rubbish/not creative in the kitchen there's a billion quick easy and cheap recipies to choose from online.

 

[Favelado]

Of course there are all sorts of reasons why poorer people may choose to buy junk food - being time poor, plus it's often a high amount of calories for the money.

No it isn't. If you are skint, you can't afford junk food. This is the myth I see pushed so often. When my mum was skint when I was a kid, there was no way we could order a pizza or got to Macdonald's. That was a treat for when we had money.

 

[lazythursday]

No it isn't. If you are skint, you can't afford junk food. This is the myth I see pushed so often. When my mum was skint when I was a kid, there was no way we could order a pizza or got to Macdonald's. That was a treat for when we had money.

I'm not talking about takeaways. I'm talking about the kind of dirt cheap stuff you get in the freezers at Iceland or wherever - cheap bags of oven chips, burgers etc.

 

[Favelado]

I'm not talking about takeaways. I'm talking about the kind of dirt cheap stuff you get in the freezers at Iceland or wherever - cheap bags of oven chips, burgers etc.

It's British national culture that's driving that. Spaniards generally live on significantly lower incomes than British people, poverty is rife, yet people don't eat anything like the same amount of junk food. Pasta is cheaper than oven chips, boiling up chickpeas or lentils and throwing in veg is cheaper than the Iceland freezer department. British people eat ridiculous amounts of ready-made food, compared to almost every other European country, and there are other cheap options.

 

[lazythursday]

It's British national culture that's driving that. Spaniards generally live on significantly lower incomes than British people, poverty is rife, yet people don't eat anything like the same amount of junk food. Pasta is cheaper than oven chips, boiling up chickpeas or lentils and throwing in veg is cheaper than the Iceland freezer department. British people eat ridiculous amounts of ready-made food, compared to almost every other European country, and there are other cheap options.

When you can get ten chicken burgers for £2, which are piss easy to cook, highly flavoured etc, I can see how for many that seems a simpler cheaper option than the pasta / chickpeas / veg. One of those burgers and two slices of bread likely does come out cheaper than even the most basic healthy pasta. I agree that eating vegan, or mainly plant based, is not expensive, but it doesn't likely save much money either when you are eating at the bottom level of the junk food market. And the reasons that people do that are definitely cultural in part but I also think there's something about the comfort of highly flavoured (arguably addictive) processed foods when you have few luxuries in your life.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

...sigh...the persistent monkey puzzle is desperate for attention.

...because you like to post up all kinds of judgemental, provocative and even racist crap but won't amend it or back down even when every other poster points it out. The arrogance and stupidity is astounding...

Wowser...this dude is like fkin Drefus...

As usual, you cannot back up any of your crap accusations, so I can't take you at all seriously, like that dog barking across the street...

You treat no criticism as valid, you put every opposing post down to trolling, and when you yourself run out of valid counter arguments then you start with the name calling.

More nonsense I'm afraid. I don't recall you posting anything worthy apart from petty nit-picking and crying of the use of words like the dreaded "carnist". lol. Bare jokes. You conveniently ignore the torrent of abuse starting well before I even joined this thread from some of your "obnoxious" buddies. Bias much? This is why I mostly ignore your posts whenever possible...

...except for the fact that (similar to lbj) you follow me around like a fkin bloodsucking leech, even when I make it clear that I'm not interested. How many "fuck off's" is it going to take before you gets through your thick skull?

You're a terrible poster and ought really to be banned from this thread.

I'm quite happy with my content (but then I would say that wouldn't I ), I wonder on what trumped up and bogus grounds this clown would have me banned from this thread. "walking on the cracks on the pavement" ...BAN HIM!

Luckily for you, as a "live" vegan you have a mod (editor ) on your side so you can shitpost, insult other posters (ddraig too) even mangle other posters' names, and nothing will happen.

Funny how you completely ignore the genuine "shitposts" that started way before I even joined this thread and complain bitterly about trivial matters like the pronunciation of words. Perhaps you need to go and have a lie down, lol.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Of course there are all sorts of reasons why poorer people may choose to buy junk food - being time poor, plus it's often a high amount of calories for the money. It seems pretty obvious that a wholefood vegan diet is cheaper than a wholefood diet including daily meat, but I suspect that a vegan diet based around processed foods would be significantly more costly than a meat-based one. I know that when I get home tired and stressed I struggle to have the creativity to make a tasty vegan meal from scratch - it's much easier to bang some burgers in the oven.

Despite veggie's costing literally pence veggie meals are usually still costed out at meat equivalent prices or treated as a luxury product.

 

[ddraig]

...because you like to post up all kinds of judgemental, provocative and even racist crap but won't amend it or back down even when every other poster points it out. The arrogance and stupidity is astounding...



You treat no criticism as valid, you put every opposing post down to trolling, and when you yourself run out of valid counter arguments then you start with the name calling. You're a terrible poster and ought really to be banned from this thread. Luckily for you, as a "live" vegan you have a mod (editor ) on your side so you can shitpost, insult other posters (ddraig too) even mangle other posters' names, and nothing will happen.

"boohoooo waaaa waaaaa booohooo"

fragility strong in this one!

don't compare me to ps please
what usernames have i mangled?? and poor you if you're insulted by people arguing back
if you're going to dish it out then try taking some too

 

[8ball]

wow, bit of a segway there...

To find out what vegans are like, you'll have meet them irl. What you'll probably discover is that they are just like any other group of people, good, bad, happy, sad, funny, serious, excitable, placid, big dicks, small dicks, good drivers, bad drivers, labour, cuntservatives...a veritable banquet of bassets all sorts.

Of course there are some people who are triggered by the very idea of veganism hence the many knee-jerk reactions in this thread, and the persistent and increasingly desperate attempts to try and rubbish vegans, which quickly gets a bit boring. This thread isn't really representative of anything important, but it does give an insight into the sort of flak and nonsense that vegans have to put up with. I have no problem having discussions with valid criticisms and observations, but when it descends into petty quibbling over terminology and semantics, cba with that shit for too long.

I think that covers things, thanks.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

When you can get ten chicken burgers for £2, which are piss easy to cook, highly flavoured etc, I can see how for many that seems a simpler cheaper option than the pasta / chickpeas / veg. One of those burgers and two slices of bread likely does come out cheaper than even the most basic healthy pasta. I agree that eating vegan, or mainly plant based, is not expensive, but it doesn't likely save much money either when you are eating at the bottom level of the junk food market. And the reasons that people do that are definitely cultural in part but I also think there's something about the comfort of highly flavoured (arguably addictive) processed foods when you have few luxuries in your life.

I think the bottom line is, for those that are interested and motivated enough, they will find a way to make it work, without excuses. It really is is much easier than it was 20/30 years ago.
Anyone that can afford to have a smartphone and can afford to get on the internet, can afford to buy fags and booze, can afford to feed themselves properly even in the fabled "food deserts". They may choose not to, and many do, but it is still a choice, and all choices have consequences, some good some bad.

Those that are genuinely going hungry and can't afford to feed themselves need to be supported by the rest of us and taken care of. A good society should take care of it's citizens.

#voteJeremyCorbyn

 

[lazythursday]

I think the bottom line is, for those that are interested and motivated enough, they will find a way to make it work, without excuses. It really is is much easier than it was 20/30 years ago.
Anyone that can afford to have a smartphone and can afford to get on the internet, can afford to buy fags and booze, can afford to feed themselves properly even in the fabled "food deserts". They may choose not to, and many do, but it is still a choice, and all choices have consequences, some good some bad.

Those that are genuinely going hungry and can't afford to feed themselves need to be supported by the rest of us and taken care of. A good society should take care of it's citizens.

#voteJeremyCorbyn

I really don't think that it's as simple as being a 'choice'. Nor is buying fags and booze. If you are in poverty and your life is shit you simply don't have the same personal capacity to be healthy. I think all of us, vegans, meat eaters and somewhere in between - should recognise that and not blame poor people for their choices.

The stock line from some meat eaters that veganism is expensive and for the middle class, however, completely misses the point and is wrong.

 

[xenon]

I think the bottom line is, for those that are interested and motivated enough, they will find a way to make it work, without excuses. It really is is much easier than it was 20/30 years ago.
Anyone that can afford to have a smartphone and can afford to get on the internet, can afford to buy fags and booze, can afford to feed themselves properly even in the fabled "food deserts". They may choose not to, and many do, but it is still a choice, and all choices have consequences, some good some bad.

Those that are genuinely going hungry and can't afford to feed themselves need to be supported by the rest of us and taken care of. A good society should take care of it's citizens.

#voteJeremyCorbyn

It's not that simple though is it. Leaving aside the specifics about vegan food. The reasons why as a nation, we're becoming obese, eating processed calorific food instead of home cooking fresh produce are actually quite complicated.

Not just about the economics. Atomisation, food as fuel, rather than a shared experience, highly commercialised supply chains and retail. Straight up ignorance, time poor, bad housing, sedentary lifestyle, laziness, etc, etc.

 

[editor]

I'm not talking about takeaways. I'm talking about the kind of dirt cheap stuff you get in the freezers at Iceland or wherever - cheap bags of oven chips, burgers etc.

Nothing wrong with oven chips or Iceland, for that matter.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I really don't think that it's as simple as being a 'choice'. Nor is buying fags and booze. If you are in poverty and your life is shit you simply don't have the same personal capacity to be healthy. I think all of us, vegans, meat eaters and somewhere in between - should recognise that and not blame poor people for their choices.

I agree, people living in genuine poverty don't really have a choice, which is why it is up to society as a whole to do their best to help those that need it the most. A proper welfare system that takes care of the well being of ALL it's citizens.

There are people who can afford to eat reasonably well but choose not to, for whatever reason. Sometimes it's habit, convenience or whatever. It really doesn't take that much effort to get the knowledge and at least try to establish "good habits". The thing is that it is a lot easier to "go with the flow" and do what everybody around you does, and many take the "path of least resistance" by default often without having to think about it.

The stock line from some meat eaters that veganism is expensive and for the middle class, however, completely misses the point and is wrong.

On this we can at least agree. It isn't necessarily more expensive even though that is the claim that seems to be repeated often.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

It's not that simple though is it. Leaving aside the specifics about vegan food. The reasons why as a nation, we're becoming obese, eating processed calorific food instead of home cooking fresh produce are actually quite complicated.

Not just about the economics. Atomisation, food as fuel, rather than a shared experience, highly commercialised supply chains and retail. Straight up ignorance, time poor, bad housing, sedentary lifestyle, laziness, etc, etc.

Absolutely, I agree. The point that was being made though is that veganism is some kind of middle class privilege, when I don't believe that it is.

 

[mojo pixy]

How many "fuck off's" is it going to take before you gets through your thick skull?

More than you can manage anyway sunshine.

I'm quite happy with my content (but then I would say that wouldn't I ).

Indeed. Do you have an actual response or is a dummy spitting tantrum all you can manage? Not holding my breath btw.

what usernames have i mangled?? and poor you if you're insulted by people arguing back
if you're going to dish it out then try taking some too

Taking some what? Is this an admission that your posts in this thread have basically been one crude insult after another? I think it is. "Arguing back" .. like when?

Still, the example set by the main mod here hasn't exactly been inspirational. So what are you gonna do "well they started it!" like a hard-done-to five year old? No wait, @PabloSanchez he's already done that, and you wouldn't want to be like him would you

Incidentally, I'm not insulted by a single thing on this thread. Nobody's even tried, as far as I can tell. Maybe my threshold for being insulted is a little higher than some half-arsed cunting off from strangers online can reach.

"boohoooo waaaa waaaaa booohooo"
fragility strong in this one!
don't compare me to ps please

I don't know about fragility, you're the one (you and that other poster you're clearly nothing like obvs) been using that word. "Please don't compare me to..." aww what fragility is that then?

We should all have a massive food fight. Vegan food of course

 

[PaoloSanchez]

As usual, you cannot back up any of your crap accusations, so I can't take you at all seriously, like that dog barking across the street...

 

[Spymaster]

I'm quite happy with my content (but then I would say that wouldn't I ), I wonder on what trumped up and bogus grounds this clown would have me banned from this thread.

Refusal to amend racially inappropriate language, for starters. You fucking slug.

 

[mojo pixy]

Not to mention the achingly funny pretend digs about PTSD

 

[AnnaKarpik]

Exactly. It's a bit of nonsense really the whole "middle class privilege" myth. It would appear that some people are desperate to find anything, no matter how ridiculous, to try and make out that it's really hard to be vegan. The hardest thing is putting up with the dickheads talking rubbish.

Middle class privilege is not a myth, it's not a matter of faith, it is a real measurable thing.

 

[lazythursday]

Middle class privilege is not a myth, it's not a matter of faith, it is a real measurable thing.

To be fair to Paolo I think he meant that specifically in the context of veganism. Not that middle class privilege doesn't exist, but that you can only be vegan if you are middle class.

 

[ddraig]

More than you can manage anyway sunshine.



Indeed. Do you have an actual response or is a dummy spitting tantrum all you can manage? Not holding my breath btw.



Taking some what? Is this an admission that your posts in this thread have basically been one crude insult after another? I think it is. "Arguing back" .. like when?

Still, the example set by the main mod here hasn't exactly been inspirational. So what are you gonna do "well they started it!" like a hard-done-to five year old? No wait, @PabloSanchez he's already done that, and you wouldn't want to be like him would you

Incidentally, I'm not insulted by a single thing on this thread. Nobody's even tried, as far as I can tell. Maybe my threshold for being insulted is a little higher than some half-arsed cunting off from strangers online can reach.



I don't know about fragility, you're the one (you and that other poster you're clearly nothing like obvs) been using that word. "Please don't compare me to..." aww what fragility is that then?

We should all have a massive food fight. Vegan food of course

grow up tiresome troll

 

[mojo pixy]

grow up tiresome troll

 

[PaoloSanchez]

To be fair to Paolo I think he meant that specifically in the context of veganism. Not that middle class privilege doesn't exist, but that you can only be vegan if you are middle class.

Precisely, thank you for putting it so succinctly.

Of course it goes without saying that people who are financially comfortable are able to afford to feed themselves adequately (although even rich people can, and often do, have poor nutrition).

It appears to be a fairly persistent and stubborn myth that "not everybody can afford to be vegan", and that you need to be well off, when it's not something that applies uniquely to vegans. It isn't any more expensive to be vegan than to be a meat eater, and if you can use your loaf, it should in theory be cheaper imo.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

"After another record-breaking Veganuary, it’s no surprise therefore that the UK dairy industry has hit back with Februdairy - a campaign of its own."



Why I Don't Think Februdairy Will Work

"I’d even go so far as to argue that Februdairy may hasten the decline of dairy consumption in the UK. The one thing that the dairy industry has on its side is that for most Britons, the consumption of dairy is an ingrained habit. Whether it’s milk in coffee, butter on toast, or cheese with biscuits, many wouldn’t even consider an alternative. Habits only tend to change if people are jarred out of their normal ways of thinking which only happens when they are provided with new challenges and information. Veganuary has brilliantly shone a light on the dairy industry, and got us to really think about where our milk, butter and cheese have come from. Februdairy, in my opinion, is giving Veganuary an extra month for free. It is forcing us to decide whether we should drink the milk of another animal that has been treated inhumanely, or whether we should get it from a health-promoting plant that has not had to suffer at all. The debating it is creating is changing habits by the day. For me, the decision, was a no-brainer and I am certain that for others it will be the same."

 

[8ball]

That’s bizarre.

Awaiting the announcement of Meaty March...