PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
pbn edit
Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?
- Thread starter Watermelon Man
- Start date
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UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Even if the number of vegans double in the next few years I can't see how it would make that much difference to the demand for animal products.
And if it did get to that point then maybe they do something else, like grow salad.
And if it did get to that point then maybe they do something else, like grow salad.
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
Vegan debate proves hot NFU election topic - Farmers Weekly
the poor farmers, again
"Positive message
West Midlands dairy farmer Michael Oakes, who is also standing for the NFU deputy and vice-president roles, said a positive message would help counter vegan arguments.
It is important the whole supply chain target people who were considering whether they should stop eating meat or give up dairy products altogether, suggested Mr Oakes.
Failure to win the argument would risk “losing a whole generation,” he added.
Somerset farmer James Small, who is standing for the post of NFU vice-president, said it was important to challenge vegans on the facts rather than fanning the flames.
Although there had been a lot of media coverage, it was important to recognise that vegans were relatively few in number, Mr Small told NFU members.
“We have to be careful how we handle this as a farming sector,” he said. “I don’t think we should be responding like for like.”
But Mr Small said it was important to challenge incorrect information.
“When something is demonstrably, absolutely categorically wrong, then we do need to challenge that. But other than that, we would simply be adding fuel to the fire.” "
I'm struggling with the BBC countryfile pro live stock farming slant. They were filming gamekeepers killing hares on moors because they spoilt the grouse shooting and there is a real push on the BBC to present livestock farming as a Worthy honourable thing to young minds looking for a career
It seems strange that they love animals so much they send them off to the abattoir for killing and butchering
Likewise the vets that shore up the livestock industry (as I think has been mentioned in the thread previously)
8ball
Decolonise colons!
A lot of change in meat demand isn’t likely to be down to vegans; there are a lot of people looking to reduce intake generally, have more veggie days etc.
Worldwide, meat demand is likely to continue growing for some time. I’d suspect those producing certain premium products may do well with the export markets and some of the massive factory farming industry may see more of a downturn over time.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
World wide it's certainly growing. That said I'd shed no tears if those involved in factory farming suffed.
editor
hiraethified
It's not the same all around the world, but in the UK there's plenty of meat eaters who are cutting back on their meat consumption.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
People who make a living from outdated or dodgy practices will simply have to find other ways of making a living. Adapt to survive. Humans are supposed to be very adaptable, which is one of the reasons for our "success" in dominating the planet. Complacency and arrogance due to that dominance is possibly what might lead to our demise.
As for the seemingly negligible impact that the number of vegans might have, well I am optimistic. The arguments in favour of veganism imo already have a strong foundation and just like the chinese bamboo tree parable I reckon it will be able to support rapid growth once critical mass has been reached. It may still take a while for that to happen or it could be sped up a bit by some sort of catalysts. 10% would be a good milestone to reach. In any case as far as I'm concerned I don't believe it to be a futile exercise to strive to do the "right thing".
About - The Vegan Strategist
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I am one of them. Tofu and veg for my tea tonight.
Never really had tofu - is there a product suitable for a n00b with limited cooking skills?
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Yeah. Make sure you get the firm stuff. Lots of ways to cook it. I pressed out some of the water, cut it to cubes, marinaded in soy sauce and siracha and baked it. Basically it doesn't have that much taste, but is a great vessel for other flavours.
You can also fry it or if your feeling very indulgent batter and deep fry!
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Sounds low calorie, then! 
I’ve had it at a Korean place bit they really know what to do with it there.
Any way of being sure I’m getting the firm stuff - does it just say ‘firm’ on the packet?
Edit: Sainsbury’s seem to do one that says ‘firm’ on it - will add to the shopping list.
It seems to be basically ‘soy cheese’. Seems a little low in methionine and lysine but good aa profile otherwise.
I’ve had it at a Korean place bit they really know what to do with it there.
Any way of being sure I’m getting the firm stuff - does it just say ‘firm’ on the packet?
Edit: Sainsbury’s seem to do one that says ‘firm’ on it - will add to the shopping list.
It seems to be basically ‘soy cheese’. Seems a little low in methionine and lysine but good aa profile otherwise.
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UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Sounds low calorie, then!
I’ve had it at a Korean place bit they really know what to do with it there.
Any way of being sure I’m getting the firm stuff - does it just say ‘firm’ on the packet?
Edit: Sainsbury’s seem to do one that says ‘firm’ on it - will add to the shopping list.
It seems to be basically ‘soy cheese’. Seems a little low in methionine and lysine but good aa profile otherwise.
It's pretty healthy if baked. Nothing like cheese though!
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Yeah, the process of making it has some things in common with cheese is what I meant (coagulating soy milk and pressing the curds).
Marinading in something spicy and baking def sounds like a plan.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
Just watched this: Food: Truth or Scare - Series 3: Episode 2
with Gloria Honeybun
They had a bit on vegans, which wasn't too bad, at least better and more balanced than their previous lame efforts.
Also featured a group of cheese nerds...
"The Colchester cheese appreciation society meet once a month to pay homage to the fromage"
...and spoke about the alleged addictiveness of cheese.
with Gloria Honeybun
They had a bit on vegans, which wasn't too bad, at least better and more balanced than their previous lame efforts.
Also featured a group of cheese nerds...
"The Colchester cheese appreciation society meet once a month to pay homage to the fromage"
...and spoke about the alleged addictiveness of cheese.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Casomorphins. Apparently an evolutionary detail that makes babies want to feed more from their mothers, and better ensures survival. Life sure is clever.
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PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
I've been aware of casomorphins ever since I posted Dr Neal Barnard's "How to magnetize a baby" vegsource lecture video on my own Joomla website 13 years ago. What isn't clear is whether cheese (or any other foods) are genuinely addictive, and the doctor on that BBC show who apparently specialises in the science of addiction doesn't believe it to be.
Narrator: "I've come to meet Dr Tony Goldstone who's a specialist in the science of addiction. He's studied the brain scans of over 1,000 subjects."
Dr Goldstone: "The brains response to food alcohol and cigarettes involves the same areas of the brain. When you eat foods that you individually like, you tend to release more dopamine in the brain. Now that happens when you take many drugs as well."
Narr: "But even though food causes your brain to release the same chemicals as something that is addictive, that doesn't mean that food is."
Dr G: "The amount of dopamine that's released with these drugs is very much greater than it would be with the food. It is ten to a hundred times greater than it would be with the food."
Narr: Dr Goldstone stays that it's NOT addiction, but a different reason entirely that we often crave some foods.
Dr G: "We've evolved to like some foods that are high in fat like cheese. Those foods give us energy that we need to maintain life and reproduce and be resistant against disease."
Narr: In your opinion, could there be any scientific evidence that there is something in cheese that could be addictive?"
Dr G: "I'm not aware of any studies in humans that have in any way directly proven that that is a true statement."
Dr Goldstone: "The brains response to food alcohol and cigarettes involves the same areas of the brain. When you eat foods that you individually like, you tend to release more dopamine in the brain. Now that happens when you take many drugs as well."
Narr: "But even though food causes your brain to release the same chemicals as something that is addictive, that doesn't mean that food is."
Dr G: "The amount of dopamine that's released with these drugs is very much greater than it would be with the food. It is ten to a hundred times greater than it would be with the food."
Narr: Dr Goldstone stays that it's NOT addiction, but a different reason entirely that we often crave some foods.
Dr G: "We've evolved to like some foods that are high in fat like cheese. Those foods give us energy that we need to maintain life and reproduce and be resistant against disease."
Narr: In your opinion, could there be any scientific evidence that there is something in cheese that could be addictive?"
Dr G: "I'm not aware of any studies in humans that have in any way directly proven that that is a true statement."
Dr Neal Barnard is still banging on about it now and even has a book out about it...
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veganomics
Active Member
I remember back when smoking was allowed on trains and in offices, it was fairly common for smokers to complain about non-smokers being self-righteous and holier than thou if they ever complained or objected to them smoking. Of course the non-smokers were right to object then and their complaints and lobbying helped to pave the way for a positive change of attitudes and legislation which has resulted in smoking gradually going out of fashion. Hopefully the path to an increased number of vegans can follow a similar trajectory to the number of non-smokers.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. I was one of those who couldn't stand smoking and had to put up with sitting in an office with smokers or occasionally getting in the wrong tube carriage (or as I called it, the cancer cabin) with it's yellow windows and when people could smoke upstairs on buses. Those days were grim (#FirsWorldProblems), but thankfully we have evolved and moved on from that and although there are still people who smoke they are on the decline.
Opera Buffa
griddling
That's a really good, measured analogy and therefore does not belong on this thread
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Yeah, fwiw I myself don't think cheese 'is addictive' (say like alcohol, heroin or cocaine) but it does bring on nice feelings and they may be a little addictive to some. Perhaps like hot chilli with its endorphin rush, also arguably somewhat addictive but more to do with the body's response than the substance itself.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I def get the chilli thing. I’m at that funny point where if I go out for, say, an Indian meal, if I’m in the mood for something a bit hot there are few places that can really believe how hot I like it. Most places don’t do anything that I wouldn’t call ‘mild’.
Trying to avoid the capsaicin a bit so that I can enjoy more of the menu.
It doesn’t take that much over a period of time before you’re in a bit of a no man’s land between ‘normal people’ and the place where serious chilli heads live. Those guys (and they’re mostly guys) are seriously into pain, which isn’t my bag. I just like enough heat to bring out the flavours.
Trying to avoid the capsaicin a bit so that I can enjoy more of the menu.
It doesn’t take that much over a period of time before you’re in a bit of a no man’s land between ‘normal people’ and the place where serious chilli heads live. Those guys (and they’re mostly guys) are seriously into pain, which isn’t my bag. I just like enough heat to bring out the flavours.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I totally get that bit. But there is also an element of self-testing and social competition there. It’s not really my thing (maybe sometimes an element of the self-testing but not in a social way for me). And as well as the flavour thing it’s really nice to combine nice food with that endorphin buzz.
So far, I find that heat really compliments the flavours of meat (especially lamb and mutton) but I’d be really interested to see whether there are vegan flavours that it works with.
Edit: I think it’s the salt and fat and umami that makes the combination. Umami is probably the key. Umami is a very ‘meat’ thing, but there are things like yeast extracts and black garlic that definitely have it going on.
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Opera Buffa
griddling
I always used to think 'patatas bravas' meant 'brave potatoes' but unfortunately it doesn't.
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Opera Buffa
griddling
They're 'fierce' instead, which makes them sound like rugby players and frankly I'm out IFSWIM
Opera Buffa
griddling
It used to be like the ending to Blackadder Goes Forth every time I cooked a meal...
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