8ball
Decolonise colons!
Depends what you mean by 'veg'.
Does that include pulses, nuts and seeds, all manner of relatively concentrated protein products (I'm including tofu here), fungus and associated extracts, various ferments etc. etc. ?
Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?
- Thread starter Watermelon Man
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Depends what you mean by 'veg'.
Does that include pulses, nuts and seeds, all manner of relatively concentrated protein products (I'm including tofu here), fungus and associated extracts, various ferments etc. etc. ?
Animal products seem the best source for nutrients.
There's stuff that is only found in such products.
I think you'd have to rely on a whole bunch of not easily/affordable sourced stuff to get the same nutrients.
Asomeone who also eats low carb, vegan would be a nightmare. I'm also not convinced that the environmental argument holds either. Clearly there are issues with industrial farming of meat and how animals are treated, but ending capitalism would help with that.
There's stuff that is only found in such products.
I think you'd have to rely on a whole bunch of not easily/affordable sourced stuff to get the same nutrients.
Asomeone who also eats low carb, vegan would be a nightmare. I'm also not convinced that the environmental argument holds either. Clearly there are issues with industrial farming of meat and how animals are treated, but ending capitalism would help with that.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Funny how vegans don't die of early then really isn't it?
What stuff can't you find in plant based food?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
There are a couple of things you can only get from certain micro-organisms if you eschew animal products, but that's where vegans get them from (and I expect some fairly frequent micro-doses of animal-derived nutrients unless really careful eg. vitamin D3 is often synthesized from wool - there is a vegan (lichen) source but it's not cheap).
Do you have any sources for that claim? I've no idea what the mortality rate for vegans is compared to a healthy diet with animal products (ie no transfats or junk).
7 Nutrients That You Can't Get From Plant Foods
Not all of these are exclusive only to meat, but as I say you would likely struggle to find suitable animal sources without a lot of resources. Health food shops aren't known for their cheap prices IME.
IMO animal products are optimal.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
Hmmm...can you let the ADA know what this "stuff" is so they can update their studies...Position of the American Dietetic Association: vegetarian diets. - PubMed - NCBI
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Well you can google for whatever result you want, but mine was vegan life span and none of the articles I got said it decreased it, with most claiming it increased it. Here's one.
Why a vegan diet can make you live longer
I'm not vegan or even vegetarian, so don't know how important it is actually is in practice to supplement with these things, but I do know that you can pay a fortune in health food shops or with a bit of shopping around find things for a fraction of the cost.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Some of that is inaccurate, and many of those chemicals are not essential nutrients.
There is a lichen source of cholecalciferol, creatine can be chemically synthesized for vegans, you can get a lot of ALA if you pick the right foods (which your body can convert to DHA, though I'd agree DHA or EPA are better). And the guy who coined the term 'vegan' lived to 95.
I think there is an issue of absolutism here - 'regular' vegan diets can be very healthy but I'd agree it takes a little engineering for certain 'performance' diets.
Position of the American Dietetic Association: vegetarian diets. - PubMed - NCBI
"appropriately planned"
Position of the American Dietetic Association: vegetarian diets. - PubMed - NCBI
EDIT: and that study refers to vegetarian not vegan
If this info is inaccurate, do you have a source for that?
Sure you can supplements, but to me that's just admitting the diet doesn't provide the nutrient in question which is the point. Personally I'd rather not have to supplement.
Whether or not he lived to 95 is irrelevant.
For me the main issue is carbs. I have no problem with people choosing to eat vegan. I don't think they should be demonised for it, I just think there's nowt wrong eating meat and that it's a better source of nutrition.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
As opposed to just stopping at McDonald's when ever you feel hungry. I think you need an element of diet planning if you are trying to stay healthy or even just budget?
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
Yeah...and?
Same applies to "omnivore" diets, and the health stats would suggest that "omnivores" have more health issues than veg*ns, so perhaps they need to do a lot more "appropriate planning".
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Only one of those, B12, can't be produced by the body itself.
The question would be how vegans acquire those other sources without fortifying food or supplementation - as opposed to from vegetables and plant food, and whether the body produces enough of it
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I have sources for various bits of it, but let's just do a quick one from the websiteyou linked to:
"There are two types of vitamin D in the diet, ergocalciferol (D2) found in plants, and cholecalciferol (D3) found in animal foods.
Of the two types of vitamin D, cholecalciferol (from animals) is much more potent than ergocalciferol."
Here's a link to get the lichen-derived stuff from:
Lichen-based vegan vitamin D3 gains momentum as Nordic Naturals introduces new product
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I'd say low carb and keto diets are the embodyment of capatalist food systems...
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Such a broad statement as to be utterly meaningless. Which animal products? Which nutrients? Live on nothing but meat and you'll be dead of scurvy long before your vegan mates have had time to develop even mild symptoms of B12 deficiency.
And appropriately planned could mean having to source foods that are expensive or very hard to come by rendering the diet utterly impractical.
It's also not a vegan study
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
The main issue is carbohydrates. The thing your entire physiology is set up to use as its primary fuel.
In our age of technological and scientific enlightenment we do still have some fucking stupid ideas don't we?
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
The real question why you would be so concerned about deficiencies amongst vegans when by nearly every metric known to man, vegans are healthier than their meat eating peers. As Ali-G might say, check YOURSELF before you wreck yourself. Omnis have a lot more to worry about than vegans it would appear.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
It's one pound fifty and a ten minute walk for me to go get a jar of ASDA own brand marmite and that lasts me maybe a month.
Tastes great on toast with peanut butter too.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Horus' chosen website does, however, end with:
"If you plan to completely eliminate animal foods, then be extra prudent about your diet and make sure you are getting everything your body needs."
Which I think is perfectly reasonable. It's just that some of the quoted things aren't things your body really needs.
"If you plan to completely eliminate animal foods, then be extra prudent about your diet and make sure you are getting everything your body needs."
Which I think is perfectly reasonable. It's just that some of the quoted things aren't things your body really needs.
There's many people and communities of people i've met online who eat nothing but animal product. Zero carb. There's also the Masai and the Inuit who's traditional diets are pretty much if not entirely veg free. Vitamin C is found in animal products, a phrase that includes meats, organ meats, offal, and things like butter, cheeses etc - animal products!
Now they could be three days away from death for all I know, or just yanking my chain. Whatever.
It doesn't matter since I'm not arguing people should eat nothing but meat.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Indeed. I've certainly felt a lot better since I cut bullshit out of my diet.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
Except that there are many people (myself included 20+ years) doing it very successfully and they appear to be better off than their meat eating peers. lol @ "impractical".
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Own brand Marmite!!!
My flatmate has the same reaction. He won't countenance any pretenders to marmite's throne.
Obviously we had to do a blind taste test. Which he obviously failed. And obviously he still buys the posh stuff
Sure, and how much do they charge for these products? You are also advocating supplements which aren't real food IMO.
How so?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
You have to be pretty strategic about which bits of which animals to eat if you are not to miss out on key nutrients, though.
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