Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[8ball]

That's because of angry non-vegans, who violently object to it being called 'milk'. They had the same problem with vegan mayo.

They'll go after coconut milk next.

Ah, I must have missed that memo. If you’d said the dairy industry I guess that might have been plausible.

 

[Opera Buffa]

Well, I did, and it is.

 

[mojo pixy]

No it categorically isn't this. It's pressure from lobbyists and politicians. See how vegan mayonnaise has started to be called 'vegannaise' or some such wank.


Dairy names for soya and tofu face new ban

Not quite what you're claiming though. It was a case brought by a consumer group ("German consumer protection group VSW, which aims to combat unfair competition") who reckoned calling soy milk 'milk' was potentially misleading. So not the conspiracy of 'big dairy' you seem to want.

That's clearly paint. What a weird point to make.

Maybe the stuff made from soy beans isn't milk either. How weird would that be eh?

 

[Opera Buffa]

Not quite what you're claiming though. It was a case brought by a consumer group ("German consumer protection group VSW, which aims to combat unfair competition") who reckoned calling soy milk 'milk' was potentially misleading. So not the conspiracy of 'big dairy' you seem to want.

Don't ask me, ask them.

Meat and dairy sectors fight back - Meat Importers Council of America


The law they were appealing under was an EU one: VSW was of the opinion that the promotion and distribution of the products under these names is contrary to the provision of § 3 a of the German Unfair Competition Act in conjunction with the regulations of Regulation (EU) No. 1308/2013 establishing a common organisation of the markets in agricultural products. That regulation provides, inter alia, that the name ‘milk’, as well as the names of other milk products, such as butter, cheese, cream, buttermilk, yoghurt etc., may in principle be used only for milk and milk products.

ECJ: Use of product names such as “Tofu butter” or “Plant cheese” violates EU Law | Bettina Clefsen - Kanzlei für Marken-, Design- & Wettbewerbsrecht

EU agriculture law exists to protect traditional dairy farming, of course it does. If you think it is immune to lobbying you are being grossly naive.

 

[8ball]

The companies want to call their vegan products 'milk', 'cheese', 'mayonnaise' or whatever...

I was a little confused when I bought the almond milk the other day because it looked right, was in the right section of the supermarket etc. and everyone calls it almond milk, but it said ‘almond drink’ on the carton.

 

[8ball]

even a 90-year-old understands what a vegetarian schnitzel is...

I had to look that one up. Can’t say I’d be scared of one, though.

 

[Opera Buffa]

Okay a 90-year-old German

 

[8ball]

Okay a 90-year-old German

Couldn’t tell you. Though it sounds like there are fewer veg*ns in Germany, so maybe some old folks might still not know...

 

[Opera Buffa]

If my grandparents were still alive they probably wouldn't understand what Facebook was but that doesn't mean it should be made illegal in order to 'protect' them from it.

 

[editor]

Maybe the stuff made from soy beans isn't milk either. How weird would that be eh?

Put paint on your cereals and in your tea often then?

 

[8ball]

If my grandparents were still alive they probably wouldn't understand what Facebook was but that doesn't mean it should be made illegal in order to 'protect' them from it.

Well, in the case of Facebook...

 

[NoXion]

Personally I'm not bothered if that watery shite extracted from almonds/soy/oats is called "milk" by vegans. But only because they're so obviously deluding themselves if they think that such pale imitations taste anything like the real thing.

 

[mojo pixy]

Don't ask me, ask them.

Meat and dairy sectors fight back - Meat Importers Council of America


The law they were appealing under was an EU one: VSW was of the opinion that the promotion and distribution of the products under these names is contrary to the provision of § 3 a of the German Unfair Competition Act in conjunction with the regulations of Regulation (EU) No. 1308/2013 establishing a common organisation of the markets in agricultural products. That regulation provides, inter alia, that the name ‘milk’, as well as the names of other milk products, such as butter, cheese, cream, buttermilk, yoghurt etc., may in principle be used only for milk and milk products.

ECJ: Use of product names such as “Tofu butter” or “Plant cheese” violates EU Law | Bettina Clefsen - Kanzlei für Marken-, Design- & Wettbewerbsrecht

EU agriculture law exists to protect traditional dairy farming, of course it does. If you think it is immune to lobbying you are being grossly naive.

OK fair enough, you really care about this, apologies for kicking the hobby horse. FWIW you can keep calling soy drink 'milk' if you like. Each time someone says "that grainy bitter shit isn't milk" you can get a little angrier about the dairy conspiracy. Who knows, in the end you might become the great angry vegan of legend...

Put paint on your cereals and in your tea often then?

No, and not soy drink either. Not every thick white liquid is worth drinking.

 

[Artaxerxes]

No, and not soy drink either. Not every thick white liquid is worth drinking.

 

[gentlegreen]

Personally I'm not bothered if that watery shite extracted from almonds/soy/oats is called "milk" by vegans. But only because they're so obviously deluding themselves if they think that such pale imitations taste anything like the real thing.

I can remember when soy milk first appeared in the early 80s, I used to dilute it.

I'm very glad it doesn't taste like cow juice.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

OK fair enough, you really care about this, apologies for kicking the hobby horse. FWIW you can keep calling soy drink 'milk' if you like. Each time someone says "that grainy bitter shit isn't milk" you can get a little angrier about the dairy conspiracy. Who knows, in the end you might become the great angry vegan of legend...



No, and not soy drink either. Not every thick white liquid is worth drinking.

You have no substantive response to Opera's points so you have a passive-aggressive, sulky, hissy fit instead? Very mature.

 

[8ball]

Aaanyway....

Until I went to the supermarket last week I just thought it was called almond/soya/whatever milk because ime that's what everyone, vegan/veggie/omni/whatever calls it. It's even called that on a lot of websites selling it (though not on the products). It was called that 30 years ago if memory serves.

Aside from confusing the occasional person picking it up for the first time, I can't see any point in not calling it that. Maybe it's a tiny concession to dairy farmers who are getting screwed by the supermarkets (obviously some lobbying input, but that's not really helping them with the supermarket issue).

Plus it's not even all vegans or all veggies who use the stuff - I know meat eaters who use it.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Almonds use a shed load of water to grow, which is far from ideal. Most Soya is GM, which probably doesn't bother most people.

I tried that hemp milk stuff, but it was pretty vile.

 

[mojo pixy]

You have no substantive response to Opera's points so you have a passive-aggressive, sulky, hissy fit instead? Very mature.

lol hissy fit? Come on, I'm sure you can do better than that

Also, I don't need a substantive point, I don't much care about big dairy lobbying and I'm not interested in whether pretend milk is called milk or something else on the packaging, any more than if someone sold a bike and called it a two-wheeled car I would care. I have no emotional connection to the word milk or any other label. I can be facetious about it but in all seriousness, it doesn't matter does it?

 

[gentlegreen]

Almonds use a shed load of water to grow, which is far from ideal. Most Soya is GM, which probably doesn't bother most people.

I tried that hemp milk stuff, but it was pretty vile.

I must be weird. I swig Tesco "value" soy milk out of the carton and am not at all keen on almond milk.

They managed to ruin hemp milk by adding vanilla and sweeteners - hopefully one day soon I will source bulk hempseeds and make my own.

As for GM - bring it on

 

[gentlegreen]

Incidentally, I wish Thatcher had been around in the 60s to "steal" the vile third of a pint I was forced to drink every morning in primary school.

 

[8ball]

Also, I don't need a substantive point, I don't much care about big dairy lobbying and I'm not interested in whether pretend milk is called milk or something else on the packaging, any more than if someone sold a bike and called it a two-wheeled car I would care. I have no emotional connection to the word milk or any other label. I can be facetious about it but in all seriousness, it doesn't matter does it?

Incidentally, according to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the word 'milk' (and prior versions thereof) has been applied to plant-based products since the 14th Century. So no matter what the dairy marketing people want, I think that ship may have sailed.

 

[mojo pixy]

Well yeah - Coconut milk, for example. And the milk of human kindness, which isn't even in liquid form

 

[mojo pixy]

Same goes for the word cheese I guess, brawn used to be called head cheese. Maybe it still is. Delightful.

 

[OzT]

I was a little confused when I bought the almond milk the other day because it looked right, was in the right section of the supermarket etc. and everyone calls it almond milk, but it said ‘almond drink’ on the carton.

Maybe it's because it is made from almonds and water without any milk as in usually accepted definition of milk from a cow?

I'm just guessing

 

[gentlegreen]

Incidentally, according to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the word 'milk' (and prior versions thereof) has been applied to plant-based products since the 14th Century. So no matter what the dairy marketing people want, I think that ship may have sailed.

Indeed - including a whole genus of fungi ...

Milk-cap - Wikipedia

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I must be weird. I swig Tesco "value" soy milk out of the carton and am not at all keen on almond milk.

They managed to ruin hemp milk by adding vanilla and sweeteners - hopefully one day soon I will source bulk hempseeds and make my own.

As for GM - bring it on

My issue with GM isn't so much the technology, but it's the complete opposite direction I think our food systems should be going.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

lol hissy fit? Come on, I'm sure you can do better than that

Also, I don't need a substantive point, I don't much care about big dairy lobbying and I'm not interested in whether pretend milk is called milk or something else on the packaging, any more than if someone sold a bike and called it a two-wheeled car I would care. I have no emotional connection to the word milk or any other label. I can be facetious about it but in all seriousness, it doesn't matter does it?

You seem to care enough to make utterly facetious arguments about the definition of milk. It doesn't matter that much no, because whatever lobbying strategies the violent animal-abusers of the dairy industry use to protect the brand-identity of stolen baby calve growth fluid they sell, they will never be able to stop people calling plant-based milk 'milk'.

 

[ddraig]

Personally I'm not bothered if that watery shite extracted from almonds/soy/oats is called "milk" by vegans. But only because they're so obviously deluding themselves if they think that such pale imitations taste anything like the real thing.

who says they are claiming it? it matters to some people, mostly non vegans who want it to taste like milk
most just want to cut out the puss, blood and cruelty in their drink and cereal

 

[ddraig]

Almonds use a shed load of water to grow, which is far from ideal. Most Soya is GM, which probably doesn't bother most people.

I tried that hemp milk stuff, but it was pretty vile.

I've never had gm soya and provamel or alpro, the biggest and most widely available brands aren't
so that's your gotcha point stumped

again, most things that are grown with a lot of water are used to feed cattle that will be slaughtered for your plate
and you think the dairy industry is efficient and not energy/resource intensive??