protesticals
Active Member
My refusal to take your directions indicates what? Given that you are insulting you are one of the last people I take direction from.
Decriminalisation of the sex industry - Corbyn says yes, what thinks urban?
- Thread starter bimble
- Start date
My refusal to take your directions indicates what? Given that you are insulting you are one of the last people I take direction from.
protesticals
Active Member
Unless there are positions so utterly unique that I have never heard of them then I cannot accept your argument. Clearly there are people who are in thrall to drug usage who use a large amount of money to obtain the funds but the coercion comes from the drugs NOT the sex industry. Please give me other examples.
Athos
Well-Known Member
You are very confused. You've added another qualifier to your original statement - that of where the coercion comes from. The point remains, that you cannot know what choices the women who went on to be sex workers had, and how they compared to other women who did not become sex workers.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i don't know for certain being as you don't seem to be who i thought you were
protesticals
Active Member
Liar? Don;t be pathetic. You are changing the goal posts at every moment. I have never told them what they should do and not denied that they felt that they had no option. Now having been refuted in those two allegations you change the attack.
You now accuse me of denying the 'truth' of these feelings. You are lying a lot. You are claiming despite me asserting utterly to the contrary that I assert that they should take a different path. That's your lie. I think they are entitled to take any path they wish whatever the options they have. Whether they believe or not they have options I still support their decision. I make no moral claims. All the categorical imperatives come from you.
However if you are accusing me of beleiving that even if they beleive that they have no choices but that there really are choices out there then , yes, thats true. I think there are always more choices out there that they are aware of or not aware of. However gioven that I do not judge their choice there is no imperative.
the person who wants to deny choice is YOU and those of you who wish to restrict people.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
At bottom I am asking you to reflect on the arrogance you have shown in seeking to presume to know the circumstances of women who sell sex. There are no orders...there cannot be. There is just a request that you show some empathy and thoughtfulness. I don't know why you would so apparently steadfastly refuse to do so.
Louis MacNeice
protesticals
Active Member
Given that we have been on many demonstrations together (remember sitting on top of a bus stop in Bournemouth on an anti Countryside alliance demo)
that seems a bit odd.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what song did we sing in the pub in response to the hunters 'john peel'?
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Liar or idiot; after your post it's less clear.
Here is the denial. Here is the 'you know better'. Here is the implied imperative. And it remains here even if you choose to refuse to see it. As I said enjoy your bubble.
Louis MacNeice
protesticals
Active Member
You have shown yourself to me as someone who is aggressive and insulting.from your first poster you used hysterical accusations. You have certainly shown no attempt to empathise or understand my position so I find your 'request' at best hypocritical. You have lied about what I have said and deliberately misrepresented me.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
protesticals
Active Member
Athos
Well-Known Member
In this context, choice is subjective; it's that person's opportunity to select one option over another. If they don't know of that option, they can't select it. As such, it is not a choice in any meaningful way.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
protesticals
Active Member
OK, We now have an issue to explore. Given I object to knee-jerk responses I'll have to consider before I respond
protesticals
Active Member
enjoy your utter hypocrisy
Gromit
International Man of Misery
The only downside i can see to legalizing this is that People Trafficking increases.
Or does it? Does it mean that the trafficking that take place selects the UK over destinations they were already trafficking to. So globally there is no increase, just an increase to here.
Maybe that could be seen as a bonus. Girls trafficked to here would end up in safer brothels than if they were trafficked to Afghanistan or wherever.
Our police force gives a damn about trafficking so at least they have a chance of help from the authorities to escape, unlike if they were trafficked to Afghanistan or somewhere or are probably in on it and taking bribes etc.
There is a interesting documentary on the Sex trade in Turkey on iPlayer.
They have legal brothels there but the religious government is slowly killing the trade of.
I went to Turkey 25 years ago where without blinking (as it was a fact of life) they told me that girls were stoned to death for having sex outside of marriage (but they were gobsmacked when told out pubs shut at 11pm). I should add that it was a group of girls who told us this not a bunch of men say yeah we stone women without feeling.
In this recent program they stated that girls are still killed for sex out of wedlock and this was used as a justification for prostitution. I'm really saddened that in 25 years there has been no progression in Turkey and if things are to be believed its going backwards.
The justification for married men using them was worse. Turkish wives won't do oral. Its seen as immoral.
Even though its legal over there women had to be registered as sex workers. Once registered they were forever branded as immoral people and suitable for no other work. Registration documentation is a permanent record.
If we do go a legalization route over here this isn't a model we should be following. Something to help catch traffickers would be good but nothing that leaves a permanent public record should someone wish to leave the industry and be in a position to do so.
Or does it? Does it mean that the trafficking that take place selects the UK over destinations they were already trafficking to. So globally there is no increase, just an increase to here.
Maybe that could be seen as a bonus. Girls trafficked to here would end up in safer brothels than if they were trafficked to Afghanistan or wherever.
Our police force gives a damn about trafficking so at least they have a chance of help from the authorities to escape, unlike if they were trafficked to Afghanistan or somewhere or are probably in on it and taking bribes etc.
There is a interesting documentary on the Sex trade in Turkey on iPlayer.
They have legal brothels there but the religious government is slowly killing the trade of.
I went to Turkey 25 years ago where without blinking (as it was a fact of life) they told me that girls were stoned to death for having sex outside of marriage (but they were gobsmacked when told out pubs shut at 11pm). I should add that it was a group of girls who told us this not a bunch of men say yeah we stone women without feeling.
In this recent program they stated that girls are still killed for sex out of wedlock and this was used as a justification for prostitution. I'm really saddened that in 25 years there has been no progression in Turkey and if things are to be believed its going backwards.
The justification for married men using them was worse. Turkish wives won't do oral. Its seen as immoral.
Even though its legal over there women had to be registered as sex workers. Once registered they were forever branded as immoral people and suitable for no other work. Registration documentation is a permanent record.
If we do go a legalization route over here this isn't a model we should be following. Something to help catch traffickers would be good but nothing that leaves a permanent public record should someone wish to leave the industry and be in a position to do so.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Wow! There were no issues earlier? Really...the notion of subjective objective split wasn't there?
I'm tending towards idiot rather than liar.
Louis MacNeice
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wobbly
making a false assumption that the circumstances that you perceive as identical are identical from the perspective of the peopole involved.
Reno
The In Kraut
Reno
The In Kraut
As to the OP, I feel about criminalising sex work the way I feel about any prohibition. Whether you approve of it or not, thinking that criminalising something will make it go away is naive to say the least. That's especially the case when it comes to something as primal as sex, which is not something everybody has easy access to for free for a variety of reasons. I believe in legalising sex work just like I believe in legalising drugs. You cut out they criminals who take advantage of a prohibition and who cause the most harm. I won't pretend that decriminalising sex work (or drugs) means they won't ever cause damage but there would be considerable harm reduction when both are out in the open.
BTW I found it confusing that this was referred to by Corbyn (or the media ?) as legalising "the sex industry" as most aspects of the sex industry are legal.
BTW I found it confusing that this was referred to by Corbyn (or the media ?) as legalising "the sex industry" as most aspects of the sex industry are legal.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
No one has access to sex for free. Theres always a price.
Reno
The In Kraut
Always the philosopher !
Should Rock and Roll also be de-criminalised to make up the trio? 
Reno
The In Kraut
Lets not get ahead of ourselves here !
bimble
floofy
It seems like his comments were sort of vague and a bit offhand and anyway he was just speaking for himself not any sort of official policy declaration or anything.
I said I'd shut up but this is just a link- it's a piece by the woman who runs the national ugly mugs charity which has been mentioned a few times upthread;
Jeremy Corbyn is right: decriminalising the sex industry is the way forward
protesticals
Active Member
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
we've been through that already
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wobbly
Melissa Ditmore: Nevada's refusal to tax brothels further alienates sex workers
thought i'd throw this in here, looking at the collusion between local authorities nd brothel owners to restrict the movement of women working in the brothels within the community.
thought i'd throw this in here, looking at the collusion between local authorities nd brothel owners to restrict the movement of women working in the brothels within the community.
protesticals
Active Member
Ok replying to Athos:
The problem here is that if the worker feels they have no choice at all then you are effectively taking away all that they have, Removing their only option, however, problematic that option might be, is no remedy for their issues. The sex industry does no coerce them however circumstances may coerce them towards the industry.
The problem here is that if the worker feels they have no choice at all then you are effectively taking away all that they have, Removing their only option, however, problematic that option might be, is no remedy for their issues. The sex industry does no coerce them however circumstances may coerce them towards the industry.
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