Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the worker has already had all choice removed: that is why they are the working class with nothing to sell but their labour. this really really shouldn't be news.
Decriminalisation of the sex industry - Corbyn says yes, what thinks urban?
- Thread starter bimble
- Start date
protesticals
Active Member
So no worker has any choices...right.
Athos
Well-Known Member
No, you're creating a situation where, for those whose only choice is sex work, any control they would otherwise have had is gifted into the hands of capital. Your reason for doing so is, presumably, to protect the most vulnerable sex workers from the harms attendant to that work; decriminalisation is unlikely to accomplish that, becasue those women who work the streets are the most marginalised - they're unlikely to get places in brothels. Instead, all the sex workers who work safely at the moment would become wage slaves to men who'd extract the surplus value of their labour. As sex workers would tell you (if you listened), there are many much better ways to help them.
Your point about who/what coerces them is completely fatuous.
Athos
Well-Known Member
With regard to whether or not to sell their labour power, by definition, workers have no choice (if they want to maintain a half decent existence).
bimble
floofy
You may well be right Athos but it looks like a lot of the people you're talking about disagree with you?
This is a recent study, apparently 'the largest survey in the UK ever completed with sex workers and organisations'. It suggest that more than 60% of organisations working with sex workers and 67% of sex workers support the idea of a decriminalised system.
https://uknswp.org/um/uploads/Laing-survey-HASC-response.pdf
This is a recent study, apparently 'the largest survey in the UK ever completed with sex workers and organisations'. It suggest that more than 60% of organisations working with sex workers and 67% of sex workers support the idea of a decriminalised system.
https://uknswp.org/um/uploads/Laing-survey-HASC-response.pdf
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
your alternative was to rot on benefits, hardly a great option
Athos
Well-Known Member
Not 67% of sex workers, but about 150 people. The response rate was tiny; obvoulsy, those in favour of moving away from the status quo are more motivated to respond. And, what alternatives were they offered?
bimble
floofy
Yep it's sad if that really is the largest survey ever carried out etc. you can see the alternatives offered if you read the document, the main point was to tell the government not to do what they're considering, which is to criminalise the punters as per 'the Nordic model'
Athos
Well-Known Member
Yeah, and not wanting the government to criminalise their punters is different from wanting decriminalisation.
Athos
Well-Known Member
The questionaire was conducted in the context of the proposed criminalisation of punters.
bimble
floofy
dont want to argue, was just trying to suggest that you may be right but lots of people including the ugly mugs organisation which works with sex workers want decriminalisation. you can dismiss all that but you can't also claim to be listening to the people you're pontificating about.
lol I get this shit all the time, you do this then I'll do that, I don't fall for it at work and I ain't falling for it now, you think I'm not making a good argument, I don't think you are listening quite frankly
Athos
Well-Known Member
Misinterpreting the tiny returns from a survey conducted in a particular context, and with closed questions which offer little scope for other possibilities isn't the same as listening to sex workers.
thanks for pointing this out cus am really high atm and I well cant deal with arguing right now
raaaaaaa am so vexed that no one seems to know wtf they are arguing about in any campaign, they are advocating the right to pimp be decriminalised, jesus fucking christ, sex work is fucking legal already it's the darkside shit that isn't think about what you are arguing for, examine it
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Don't know if anyone's endorsing it exactly. Would you rather these workers were picked up, fined and given a record by the police?
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
if you're endorsing decrim then that's exactly what you are doing as sex work is legal, the illegal things are pimping, brothel keeping, street walking which are high risk and fucking scum occupations (the first two i aint judging women on the street fyi disclaimer), I dunno why everyone thinks women would want to give a cut of their money to someone for basically doing fuck all when it comes down to it, women want to be independent and make their own money, everyone is already doing it themselves fine already apart from those in a really shitty situation they have no way of getting out of and even less chance if people assume it is their choice and don't question their presence, there are a shit load of wannabe pimps in this world and thinking about some of the shit i have encountered it makes me feel sick that people wanna give a green light for this
I've already stated my thoughts on labelling women as criminals.
in reality people just wanna work for themselves, keeping their own capital and not having to answer to anyone, being your own boss and gaining independence is a big draw of the sex industry now and this will shut it down
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raaaaa I've just thought of another thing what may be skewing views
all these documentaries on webcamming, my god, the picture it paints of easy money and dudes being polite, it's not in the slightest related to reality, so remember the spin that gets put on things by a liberal media who just want ratings, fucking hell the gap is huge, no one shows or talks about the shit days, the days where you're on for 8 hours and only make two quid, the harassment, the constant entitlement, the bargaining over rates, the wind ups, the baiting, the guy who gets you thinking he's gonna spend and drops you, the frustration, the fact it's absolutely not easy, these kind of things are a joke along with anything painting a completely fluffy picture of shit like the amount of dudes that will want you to shave your legs or just talk or cover yourself in beans are just so few it's not an accurate picture at all, real life needs to smack you all in the face. these journalist scabs are constantly crawling sex worker forums with 'mnerrrr am making a documentary i think yer all really interesting so tell me all yer secrets' << the fucking scabs. nobody talks about the shit things or the crap anyone puts up with.
all these documentaries on webcamming, my god, the picture it paints of easy money and dudes being polite, it's not in the slightest related to reality, so remember the spin that gets put on things by a liberal media who just want ratings, fucking hell the gap is huge, no one shows or talks about the shit days, the days where you're on for 8 hours and only make two quid, the harassment, the constant entitlement, the bargaining over rates, the wind ups, the baiting, the guy who gets you thinking he's gonna spend and drops you, the frustration, the fact it's absolutely not easy, these kind of things are a joke along with anything painting a completely fluffy picture of shit like the amount of dudes that will want you to shave your legs or just talk or cover yourself in beans are just so few it's not an accurate picture at all, real life needs to smack you all in the face. these journalist scabs are constantly crawling sex worker forums with 'mnerrrr am making a documentary i think yer all really interesting so tell me all yer secrets' << the fucking scabs. nobody talks about the shit things or the crap anyone puts up with.
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Reno
The In Kraut
Best way to browse U75
For the poster maybe, not so much for the rest of us.
whats that supposed to mean? can you not figure out my difficult typewords? or are you judging about how I type like I talk? don't you like people who 'sound common'? do you find them easier to dismiss? cus other people can seemingly understand what I'm saying
Reno
The In Kraut
Go have a doughnut !
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
what does that mean
yes it does matter. it matters because the women at the low end of everything do not have a legitimate choice, if choice based argument is going to be touted as a reason for allowing people to be pimped then that needs to be challenged doesn't it. the situation doesn't have to be managed for all involved as a change in the law wont affect anyone but the women at the bottom and it'll affect them negatively as it's basically giving third parties the right to be involved which will not change how those women are viewed
hypothetical: say a girl being pimped manages to get away from the pimp and gets an interview with a brothel, but he beat her and she's got a black eye and he's given her fuck all so she hasn't got make up to cover it / she has a drug addiction and track marks, do you think the brothel will hire her? should they hire her? it's more than likely any brothel will have standards to meet just as strip clubs do, so the fact these places might exist it wont guarantee work.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Reno
The In Kraut
Forget it, I mixed you up with someone else's and I apologise.
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