My younger sister was one of those students. She went a few weeks ago. She's your typical cynical teenager but she came back absolutely stunned at the foulness of it all. It made her think very, very deeply about her beliefs and her responsibilities as a member of the younger generation. I think it's a very worthwhile scheme.
Conspiraloon 9/11- 7/7 Truther outed as Holocaust denier
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My younger sister was one of those students. She went a few weeks ago. She's your typical cynical teenager but she came back absolutely stunned at the foulness of it all. It made her think very, very deeply about her beliefs and her responsibilities as a member of the younger generation. I think it's a very worthwhile scheme.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
The trouble is though, and at the risk of being flamed into an early grave, could the Govt's eagerness to ship out students to German POW camps be as much to do with trying to encourage people to naturally side with Israel in the middle east? I'm all for 'never forgetting', but I'm still cynical towards ulterior motives.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Blimey.
Dunno what to say really, what with the Scottish Govt trying to stop it and all.
Fwiw, my perception is that people are uncomfortable with it in IN THEIR FACE.
I was talking about the UK Govt not the Scottish one and they're keen to promote it iirc. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm questioning their motives behind it.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I can see what you mean by that.
Its pretty fucked up when one has to look at initiatives like this with a cynical eye..
But this is what happens when you have a twat snake oil salesman in charge for so long, pissing away taxpayers money on focus groups and cunts like Alastair Campbell.
Trust in the government is at an all time low, thanks to New Labour's obssessively futile PR ...
Y_I_Otter
Dangerous Terroirist
The vast majority of people murdered at Auschwitz-Birkenau were civilians, not POWs. I don't get the connection between empathy for European Jews (people, individuals) murdered more than half a century ago and "siding with" present-day Israel (a state).
Sorry, I meant concentration not POW camps - although thought the two were one and the same. Also, I don't connect having empathy for the plight of the Jews with support of the state of Israel, but the question remains, why are the Govt so keen to promote this in the education system? Bearing in mind that the UK blindly supports the US of which Israel is a client state.
Am I just being overly and needlessly cynical?
Y_I_Otter
Dangerous Terroirist
From what Ive seen of the British curriculum, the Holocaust module is tied into the Social Responsibility one. Perhaps one purpose of the trips is to draw a connection between the rhetoric used by the Nazis against Jews and the modern-day demonisation of British Muslims and non-whites by groups like the NF and the BNP.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I don't want to get into ucl knocking because they got rid of him sharpish when they found out. You do wonder though how much they knew before they were alerted. Clearly the Holocaust Studies people didn't know about his holocaust denying - and to be fair it may well be that the Science Department didn't know anything.
I just do wonder a bit though. He did his PhD there mid 90s - and has presumably been around the place on and off ever since - invited to research events at the very least. He's been very open about his holocaust stuff as well as his astro/911 loonery - all under his own name as has been said and all over the internet.
Okay, possible that nobody knew about the 'no jews were gassed by germans' stuff, but I am surprised they gave an Honourary Fellowship to someone who was away with the fairies on astrology - and also publicly in stating that a bomb in his own city had been exploded by the government.
Suppose actually, provided they didn't know about the holocaust stuff, it might even be seen as a positive thing that they were willing to give a Fellowship to someone with bizarre views on other topics. Not the usual safety first approach. Either way i find it difficult to believe nobody knew anything when it came to such a massive self-publicist. Suspect the University itslef may be asking some of these questions.
And the extreme misogynism. I once read a several page thread on VNN saying about how white women were the enemy of the white race
I used to go there years ago
.... Fuck me some of the flat out ignorance (denial?) of some of the posters amazed me ... I remember this Iranian guy trying to claim that Iranians are really who Hitler was referring too when he talked about "Aryans" in Mein Kampf and that they were indeed the "great tribes that came down from the North" ..... never mind that Iran is to the East of Germany .....Aaahh WN's ... you funny ignorant dickheads.
I know who you mean
there are some crazy (and very damaged) people on there to be sure, and some utter psychopaths ...
We may have crossed paths then? Was his name Diabolic or something like that ? (I just seem to remember something like that is all) .... it's alway's good fun throwing in a few "hail marys" and see what the reaction is ...
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Gross.
Just shows what low lifes they are.
off topic Most of the committed fash I've met over the years have a 'strange' and not quite healthy sex life or respectful attitudes to partners. The rest of them just spend their time wanking off over a Silvermans catalouge
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
The classic one was "if you weren't a kike i'd give you and your girlfriend the time of your life remember..."
Nasty.
Oh and the one who wanted me to meet up and have sex with him while his wife was out of the country.
So much for all the bollocks they spout about marriage then.
A weird one I encountered was the pro LGBT fash. Hated Muslims but was OK with people having alternative sexualities because he 'knew some of them'
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
So much for all the bollocks they spout about marriage then.
A weird one I encountered was the pro LGBT fash. Hated Muslims but was OK with people having alternative sexualities because he 'knew some of them'
Yeah there are some "libertarian" fash with extremely, shall we say, open minded ideas about sex and sexuality.
look up "brandon orr" or "pornonationalism" some time for one of these characters with quite "interesting" ideas ... or maybe, don't.
Y_I_Otter
Dangerous Terroirist
That would be Diabloblanco.
Put up a picture of a Levantine, dark Mediterranean, or non-Dravidian Indian person on any forum on the net under the thread title "Is This Person White?" and you'll attract him and his coterie of fellow loonies. He's the one person most of your White Power rangers and antiracists can agree is a complete idiot.
@Froggie: Now you've done it. Surely you know Brandon Orr routinely googles his name.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
What. The. Fuck.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
I think so yes. I don't doubt that Blair and Brown's less than objective Middle East adviser's will have had something to do with it, but I don't see how anyone could visit Auschwitz-Birkenau and come away with the belief that what Israel is doing to the Palestinians should be ignored.
It's a bogus connection. The Holocaust Survivors long ago dissociated themselves from Israeli Prime Ministers who used the Holocaust to justify their own atrocities.
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
The "NSFW" tag seems, just a tad, redundant.
I used to go there years ago
I neverr read Mein Kampf, but seems to me you Iranian friend mixing up Persian history with contemporan, relating to the nomad tribes known as (and caling themselves) Arya who immigrated the Zagros, probably coming from the east, but some indeed argue they came from the north passing over the Caucasus.
Known as masters in taming and riding of horses, especially the tribe confederation known as the Mede greatly contributed to the might of the Assyrian army and hence the might of Assyria on its whole. This confederation of tribes formed the core of the Mede's uprise against the Assyrians which led to the rapid downfall of the Assyrians and the beginning of the Median rule.
An other Aryan people that had been target of Assyrian conquest and rule was known by them as Parsua and which about two centuries later led to the former kingdom Anshan be known under no other name than The Land of the Persian. With those Aryan tribes lies the ancestry of Cyrus the Great, who brought along the downfall of the Median rule to replace it with the Persian Empire and conquering a territory vaster than what was ever seen in history.
salaam.
I'd like to think you're being cynical, Citizen66.
Whatever the motivation behind the trips, it would seem that the people involved in them directly - they had a talk from a survivor and were accompanied by a rabbi - are completely sincere, at least.
And the result, in my sister's case anyway, has been to make her realise how much speaking out against oppression and fascism matters. I'd like to think that's been duplicated across the country.
(Though she is still very much a teenager. She announced to me that if she sees any members of the BNP campaigning for local elections she is going to 'threaten them with physical violence.")
Whatever the motivation behind the trips, it would seem that the people involved in them directly - they had a talk from a survivor and were accompanied by a rabbi - are completely sincere, at least.
And the result, in my sister's case anyway, has been to make her realise how much speaking out against oppression and fascism matters. I'd like to think that's been duplicated across the country.
(Though she is still very much a teenager. She announced to me that if she sees any members of the BNP campaigning for local elections she is going to 'threaten them with physical violence."
)
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Just a small point.
The govt aren't sending schoolkids to visit "German POW camps", aka "Stalags", but to internment, concentration and death camps.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Probably not, given that exposure to such a thing might generate an automatic sympathy for Israel, but I suspect that's as far as it goes, and that in many cases any attempt to "self-educate" oneself about the issue to a greater degree will expose the person to facts about the state of Israel that would make the scales fall from their eyes while still allowing them to sympathise about the effects of the holocaust.
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