Conspiraloon 9/11- 7/7 Truther outed as Holocaust denier

[ViolentPanda]

http://davidicke.com/content/blogcategory/30/48/

Blimey, and I thought that jazzz often showed a paucity of critical thinking. These people make him seem like a positive analytical marvel!

 

[frogwoman]

yea, i love it when they do that. Tyndall was always a great fan of doing that in his Spearhead columns.

John "Smith".

Aha! Not John Smithowitz-zionberg?

No, really, just John Smith

 

[Blagsta]

Blimey, and I thought that jazzz often showed a paucity of critical thinking. These people make him seem like a positive analytical marvel!

Speaking of Jazzz, where is he?

 

[kyser_soze]

Still banging on about vaccination on Trashy's MMR thread...

 

[ViolentPanda]

Speaking of Jazzz, where is he?

Dunno, I notice that he's studiously avoiding this thread, though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Still banging on about vaccination on Trashy's MMR thread...

Easier target, innit?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Easier target, innit?

Less emotive maybe; still very tricky in relation to the facts...but that's for another day and that other thread.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[chico enrico]

Great quote from Jazzz over on the MRR thread:

I am stating it as my personal opinion. Scientifically, it's a hypothesis. Which you have done absolutely nothing to disprove.

 

[butchersapron]

Looks like Gosling has decided to nick the 911 boards database and set up his own version of the site minus all the posters he doesn't agree with, and with all the posts he doesn't like deleted or hidden or censored in some manner.

Real site

Fake site

Regged to Tony Gosling last month. Looks like he'd been planning this for a while - exactly ariound the ime when people started complianing baout his authoritarian modding and high handed attitude. Great stuff

 

[Chairman Meow]

I was in Auchwitz and Birkinau on Monday. Even though I'd done a fair bit of reading around the holocaust, the scale and horror of it really got to me. I have been having nightmares since. So I'm delighted to see the holocaust denier scum get pwned. Good work people.

And as for Jazz, I always thought he was just a harmless fruit loop. Now I see he's mates with utter shitbags like NK, even though he is Jewish, well, words really fail me. But I won't be bothering to engage with him again.

 

[cesare]

So few people will write down their impressions, even though 60+ years on. There's a reluctance, keep it inside.

There was a poster on this thread (was it MikeMCC? can't remember) who mentioned that he'd been to a couple of camps and suggested that the conspiracy theorists and/or holocaust deniers should have to go. It was a short post though, again, you gained an impression more by what wasn't said.

I can understand the reluctance, course I can. But I feel we have to keep the memory alive. Never forget.

edit: wasn't specifically thinking of you there CM, I just voiced what I'd been thinking since last week.

 

[frogwoman]

I've never wanted to go to any of the camp sites or anything like that for that reason

world war 2 has always been a (somewhat) big part of my life and if i went i'd have nightmares too i think ...

 

[cesare]

Writing it down almost dehumanises it. I've been really struggling with reading the links that butchers posted back there ->

At first I thought it was the use of a serif font, so I copied the whole thing into a word doc sans serif so that it was easier to read. But I still haven't finished it (the longer doc).

Then you have that weird weird feeling about these places, and you don't know how to describe it. Because if you do, it sounds too spooky & unreal and you worry that people who haven't experienced will think you're either exaggerating or sentimental. But it's not like that, it's just that the 'acceptable' language we have to describe it doesn't do it justice.

 

[Badger Kitten]

I went to Auschwitz when I was working in Poland in 1990. It was one of the most disturbing places I have ever been to, and I dreamed of it for years afterwards.

The piles of girls and women's plaits, chopped off, piled several feet high. The spectacles, mountains of them. The photos of people's faces, snapped with their eyes full of tears and horror, or just looking broken.

And the fact that no birds sang.

It was a place of utter evil. It was almost unbearable to be there.

 

[Bakunin]

Writing it down almost dehumanises it. I've been really struggling with reading the links that butchers posted back there ->

At first I thought it was the use of a serif font, so I copied the whole thing into a word doc sans serif so that it was easier to read. But I still haven't finished it (the longer doc).

Then you have that weird weird feeling about these places, and you don't know how to describe it. Because if you do, it sounds too spooky & unreal and you worry that people who haven't experienced will think you're either exaggerating or sentimental. But it's not like that, it's just that the 'acceptable' language we have to describe it doesn't do it justice.

I think it was Primo Levi who said that to really write it down you had to experience it, and if you'd experienced it then you didn't want to write any more.

 

[Chairman Meow]

A few things I saw on Monday, and I will never get out of my head again.

Block 10, where they experimented on women.
Block 11 - the prison - in particular the standing cells.
The execution wall.
The photos of some of the children, and the terror in their eyes.
The crematoria.
The ash ponds.
The chimneys at Birkenau.
The train tracks.
The wind, even though Monday was a sunny day.

All of it, really.

We must never forget.

 

[Dillinger4]

Theodor Adorno said some interesting stuff about 'writing after Auschwitz'

Adorno's is an ethics and metaphysics "after Auschwitz." Ethically, he says, Hitler's barbarism imposes a "new categorical imperative" on human beings in their condition of unfreedom: so to arrange their thought and action that "Auschwitz would not repeat itself, [that] nothing similar would happen" (ND 365). Metaphysically, philosophers must find historically appropriate ways to speak about meaning and truth and suffering that neither deny nor affirm the existence of a world transcendent to the one we know.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/adorno/#6

 

[Y_I_Otter]

Then you have that weird weird feeling about these places, and you don't know how to describe it. Because if you do, it sounds too spooky & unreal and you worry that people who haven't experienced will think you're either exaggerating or sentimental. But it's not like that, it's just that the 'acceptable' language we have to describe it doesn't do it justice.

I've never visited any of the killing factories in Poland, but I've been to Dachau and Sachenhausen, places I have a familial connection to. Spooky and unreal describes it well enough. The evil and misery linger; it's palpable, hovering over those places like a cloud, even all these years later.

I'd imagine Auschwitz-Birkenau would be that, in spades. When the news broke about British students going there on educational day-trips, the denier forums were labeling it child-abuse.

An odd thing to call it, if nothing untoward happened there.

 

[cesare]

Theodor Adorno said some interesting stuff about 'writing after Auschwitz'



http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/adorno/#6

To still write a poem after Auschwitz is barbaric

but later

Perennial suffering has as much right to expression as the tortured have to scream... hence it may have been wrong to say that no poem could be written after Auschwitz.

Disenchantment, Weber. That's interesting.

 

[cesare]

I've never visited any of the killing factories in Poland, but I've been to Dachau and Sachenhausen, places I have a familial connection to. Spooky and unreal describes it well enough. The evil and misery linger; it's palpable, hovering over those places like a cloud, even all these years later.

I'd imagine Auschwitz-Birkenau would be that, in spades. When the news broke about British students going there on educational day-trips, the denier forums were labeling it child-abuse.

An odd thing to call it, if nothing untoward happened there.

My b/f was describing Dachau last Friday evening, but though he'll talk about it, he won't write it down.

About 15 years ago, I had a strange experience on holiday driving through France. We stopped at a long wide lay-by to stretch our legs and have a break. Quite high up altitude wise, we didn't know where we were exactly, I was map reading but just the roads A to B. As soon as we got out of the car, the place felt really weird. Complete silence and very oppressive. It was just a lay-by on a road. I wanted to get back in the car and drive on, but my ex wanted to stop a while ... and he'd spotted something a bit further up the lay-by. So we went to have a look. It was a plain concrete pillar with a plaque explaining that this a marker for the outer edges of one of the camps. I can't remember which one (although I think probably Natzweiler-Struthof). I just needed to get away.

 

[ymu]

And now this ...

David Cameron was facing intense political criticism last night after including student “trips to Auschwitz” on a list of government gimmicks.

The Tory leader was resisting opposition calls to apologise about the reference to visits, organised by the Holocaust Educational Trust, in a list of “Gordon Brown’s 26 gimmicks” included in a speech.

The document, sent out in response to a similar list from Labour, of 50 Conservative achievements since 1997, included: “Honours for sportsmen”, “Prison ships”, “Deep cleaning of hospitals” and “New border police”. No 4 on the list was “Trips to Auschwitz”.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3418653.ece

 

[Fullyplumped]

The Scottish National Party thinks it's a gimmick as well, and they run the government up here.

Judging by the comments in this Herald story, some of their fans think that it's a Labour Friends of Israel plot and -

Don't the schools have access to the Internet. Show them "The Pianist" excerpts from "Sophie's Choice" "Schindler's List" and a few others. There is also an excellent BBC documentary on Auschwitz.​

 

[pk]

So no more legal threats from Nazi-fetishist antisemite Herr Kollerstrom then?

 

[butchersapron]

Someone just unhid the 'hidden' holocaust thread for a few minutes - hidden again now. I suspect some shit-stirring from behind the scenes as competing bidders for the sites ownership try and fuck each other over.

 

[Badger Kitten]

So no more legal threats from Nazi-fetishist antisemite Herr Kollerstrom then?

He's all surprised and puzzled, like a naive ickle lost lambkin faced with horrid thought-crime wolves

Dr Kollerstrom, 61, an honorary research fellow at University College London until Tuesday, stood by the claims this week, but expressed surprise that they had caused offence.

And he insisted the university “had not actually told me what’s so terrible about the article”.

He complained that he had been

accused of “thought-crime” after spending months researching it.

And he added: “If a smaller number were gassed, then surely the Jewish community should be pleased that it wasn’t so ghastly.”

Dr Kollerstrom, of St John’s Wood, North West London, said he prefers to call himself a revisionist rather than a denier. Revisionists, he said, “want to look at European history without quite so much hate and bitterness”.

He also claimed he was the victim of “a calumny” by bloggers who had accused him of far-right sympathies and posted on the internet an image doctored to show him in Nazi uniform.

“I have some very good Jewish friends and have never had the slightest interest in the Nazi movement,” he said. “I never go to Germany. I have always belonged to things like the Green Party, CND and Respect.”

A UCL spokesman said: “The views expressed by Dr Kollerstrom are diametrically opposed to the aims, objectives and ethos of UCL, such that we wish to have absolutely no association with them or with their originator.

“We, therefore, have no choice but to terminate Dr Kollerstrom’s research fellowship with immediate effect.”

A source at the university also said that there had been concern at opinions Dr Kollerstrom had expressed regarding conspiracy theories over the July 7 2005 London bombings and the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. His areas of research include Newtonian theory and the 19th-century British discovery of Neptune. He is also the author of a yearly guide to Gardening and Planting by the Moon, which contains chapters on “Using the Star Zodiac” and “The Moon and Crop Yield”

.

Thanks to Butcher's Apron for finding the Jewish Chronicle article

 

[winjer]

Further proof that he can't count, The UK hasn't suffered >1000 military fatalities in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Deaths on either side count.

 

[kyser_soze]

Can I just add my concurrence with what those who've been to Auschwitz/Dachau etc have said about there being something wrong about the places. I'm Mr Materialist Atheist, but my experience of visiting Auschwitz and the ambience of the place...it's like something's deeply wrong with that part of reality...even tho I suspect that's imprinting of empathy based on knowledge of what's happened rather than any physical effects...

 

[cesare]

Oh, look. An index of Nick Kollerstrom's work on the web

The Kollerstrom Index

Nick Kollerstrom has quietly been publishing a huge body of work on the web. It ranges from the history of astronomy, to alchemy and astrology's relationship to metals, to horticulture and Moon cycles. For the first time, here are all the links collected together in one place.

http://www.astrozero.co.uk/

astro0 and astro3, presumably there's astros 1 and 2 out there as well.

 

[Citizen66]

From astro-zero to ground-zero.

 

[Chairman Meow]

Can I just add my concurrence with what those who've been to Auschwitz/Dachau etc have said about there being something wrong about the places. I'm Mr Materialist Atheist, but my experience of visiting Auschwitz and the ambience of the place...it's like something's deeply wrong with that part of reality...even tho I suspect that's imprinting of empathy based on knowledge of what's happened rather than any physical effects...

I got this very strongly on Monday, especially in the gas chamber of Auchwitz 1, and in the basement of the prison block. The only other time I felt like this was in the House of Terror in Budapest, where I had to leave the torture basement as I thougt I was going to pass out. I met my mate outside gasping for air, she had felt just the same. Maybe it is just over empathising or something, but those places just felt wrong to me.

Just remembered, my mum had a similar experience at Newgrange.