Conspiraloon 9/11- 7/7 Truther outed as Holocaust denier

[Badger Kitten]

astro3 said...

May I have a right of reply?
Most of your viewers may share your own knee-jerk response of ‘Holocaust denier =Nazi= anti-Semitism,’ with the accompanying hate and rage; and this is the one any only topic in our culture where everyone knows they are supposed to believe it but no-one ever gets to hear what the evidence is supposed to be, and one gathers it would be very ethically damnable to inquire about it. For the one or two who wish to look into the subject and dare I say question it, permit me to recommend perusing ‘Dissecting the Holocaust’ by twenty-odd different authors which is the modern work on the subject: www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/

You are quite right to call me a ‘denier’ in that I deny that anyone ever put Jews into gas chambers. That didn’t happen, its not part of the historical record. There are no documents, no photographs, no physical traces or remains, no post-mortem diagnoses of deaths by cyanide poisoning: there are only stories. In all the Nazi documentation, the ‘Final solution’ always meant the export of Jews, Eastwards, it never had a lethal meaning. The Bad-Arolsen archives in North Germany are the definitive record of who died in the camps, how many died, and how they died.
Thank you for allowing me to reply, have a nice day.

That was Nick Kollerstrom on my site.

So let's look at the book which he says is ''the modern work on the subject''

The book is by Ernst Gauss, who is in fact Germar Rudolf.

And who is Germar Rudolf? A Holocaust denier.

Dissecting the Holocaust was edited and coauthored by Rudolf under the nom de plume Ernst Gauss. The German language publication with the title Grundlagen zur Zeitgeschichte resulted in further indictments being filed against Rudolf. Among the contributors to the work are other Revisionist scholars such as Professor Robert Faurisson, Jürgen Graf, Carlo Mattogno, Udo Walendy and Friedrich Paul Berg. Included as an appendix is a defense of the work used at the trial by historian, Joachim Hoffmann.[5]

And what happened?

Legal consequences: Escape, Deportation and Imprisonment

In 1994, Rudolf was sentenced to 14 months in prison by the district court of Tübingen because of the "Rudolf Report", as Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany. Rudolf avoided prison by fleeing to Spain, England and finally to Chicago, USA. There, he applied for political asylum, but his request was denied.Meanwhile, criminal investigation continued in Germany. In August 2004, the district court of Mannheim distrained a bank account holding about €200,000. Rudolf and his associates had earned this money by selling Holocaust denying publications.

On September 11, 2004, Rudolf married a US citizen, and took her name, Scheerer, until the two divorced. Nevertheless, his request for asylum was turned down in November of that year on the basis that his application was "frivolous". On October 19, 2005, Rudolf was arrested and deported to Germany on November 15.[3] There on arrival, he was arrested by police authorities and transferred to a prison in Stuttgart-Stammheim in Baden-Württemberg. On March 15, the Mannheim District Court sentenced Germar Rudolf to two years and six months in prison for inciting hatred, disparaging the dead, and libel. Rudolf as well as the prosecution accepted the verdict. Rudolf's "Lectures on the Holocaust" will be withdrawn.[4]

That's the person Kollerstrom cites as the author of ''the modern work on the subject''

 

[cesare]

Some of it is just bad science. The tests on cyanide in walls is a classic example if you read up on it. Not done by Nazis, just not done in the right manner and giving results that can be abused.

Yeah, I'm still reading the information in the links that butchers posted. Interesting stuff.

 

[Badger Kitten]

And guess what?

In a neat little arc, the Holocaust denier, jailed for inciting racial hatred, who wrote the book Kollerstrom is such a fan of...

is a 9/11 ''Truther''

Investigation into new reports about 9/11

In July 2003, according to his own published articles, Rudolf conducted limited experiments in the use of cellular phones from an airliner while in flight. He reports mixed results and has left the question open. His stated reason for conducting these experiments is to verify or deny a widely circulated claim that it is impossible to make cellular phone calls from an airliner at cruising height. This he co-authored with Alexander Dewdney.[6]

 

[pk]

Oh I find Scientology hilarious, especially the bit about obliterating all psychiatrists!

They want to destroy what they need the most!

 

[Badger Kitten]

And here is a refutation of the Rudolf book and the loonspud claims he makes

 

[ViolentPanda]

We really are up to our necks in a surveillance society, aren't we?

One day maybe we will have a free education system - particularly in higher education, where people are free to put forward ideas - however distasteful and untrue they are - without feeling they will face the loss of their livelihood.

Nobody minds academics advancing "distasteful" ideas if they can support their ideas with evidence, that's how we go about clarifying history.
Dr. Kollerstrom hasn't done that, he's made claims that aren't substantiated by the historical record, and it appears that he's at least partially based those claims on Fred Leuchter's disproven thesis about Zyklon B by-product residue.

But then if people can dismiss free speech as bullshit or liberal wishy-washy shite their isn't much hope is there?

So, who exactly has dismissed free speech as "bullshit or liberal wishy-washy shite", then? Go on, be a mensch, name names.

I'd still like to know who and how restricted speech is to be policed? And what is going to happen to those academics who are apologists for Marxist atrocities? Creationists? Islamic fundamentalists?

You don't get it, do you? The ECHR doesn't entitle people to a right of free speech unencumbered by any responsibility for what one speaks freely. Why not familiarise yourself with article 10, which covers the right to freedom of expression?
Perhaps then you'll actually have some idea of what you're talking about.

 

[pk]

Thread moving fast, slow connection today at Mossad HQ!

Would it be easier to work out which members of the truther cult AREN'T holocaust deniers?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Soory, BK, but threads get derailed all the time, and ino he has a valid point, if you denounce someone for extreme right wing views now, how long before it is the left wing,etc who also get denounced, dangerous path imo. In fact, as i am sure you know, in the U.S there are neo-con groups set up to do exactly that, spy on liberal academics on campuses and denounce them.



'

He hasn't "been denounced" for hard-right views, he's been denounced for "holocaust denial". One doesn't have to be a "nazi" in order to deny the holocaust, just an ahistoric dolt.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That was Nick Kollerstrom on my site.

So let's look at the book which he says is ''the modern work on the subject''

The book is by Ernst Gauss, who is in fact Germar Rudolf.

And who is Germar Rudolf? A Holocaust denier.






And what happened?



That's the person Kollerstrom cites as the author of ''the modern work on the subject''

The German authorities were probably making a statement to other "holocaust deniers" by sending him to Stammheim. It has the toughest inmate regime in the country(still more liberal than most British nicks, though).

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah, I'm still reading the information in the links that butchers posted. Interesting stuff.

Isn't it just?

 

[Aldebaran]

lots of acedemics present their theories as fact alderban, it's nothing new.

1. No, they don't.
2. Publishing with an air of authority in a field you didn't even study is that idiotic that it goes beyond imagination, let alone when using your academic title in an other field to underscore your rants in the not even remotely related.
It would be the same would I start publishing on astrophysics using my doctorates or whatever other unrelated degree I have, to give my writings "credibility". Maybe you would consider that a remarkable career/expertise switch, but I think not.

Academics tend to limit their theories-as-fact pronouncements to subjects within their field of expertise. And then peer-review comes into play.

Exactly and in addition: Not pronounced as "fact" but as theory about possible fact hence always holding invitation to further research and discussion.

salaam.

 

[cesare]

Isn't it just?

It was useful to do that on-line tour of Auschwitz-Birkenau first as well.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh I find Scientology hilarious, especially the bit about obliterating all psychiatrists!

They want to destroy what they need the most!

Yeah, but at least the Hubbardites have a (kind of) valid reason to want to destroy psychiatry (so that they can con everyone with their own pseudo-psychoanalytic shtick).

 

[treelover]

Tbh, i am a bit baffled, what is his rationale for denying the holocaust happened or that millions didn't end up in the gas chambers, his denial above is pretty unequivocal, is he 'just' anti-semetic, plain bonkers, looking for noterieity or what?

 

[Badger Kitten]

I have no idea what his motivation is, but he is absolutely certain that he has discovered the Truth.

Just like he thinks he is onto the Truth about 7/7 and 9/11.

I wonder whether he was always a holocaust-denier who is using 7/7 and 9/11 to make his views more relevant to people today,

or whether he is a 9/11 Truther who fell deeper and deeper into the world of conspiracy theories - like someone getting into harder and harder pornography?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Tbh, i am a bit baffled, what is his rationale for denying the holocaust happened or that millions didn't end up in the gas chambers, his denial above is pretty unequivocal, is he 'just' anti-semetic, plain bonkers, looking for noterieity or what?

You have to view the situation through the mindset of a conspiracy theorist, which means (in many cases) not addressing the facts as established, but reviewing those facts as the product of a conspiracy. This doesn't just apply to "holocaust denial", but to any event, hence a rail transport infrastructure failure won't be the product of worn rails, bad signalling and/or poorly serviced rolling stock, but a conspiracy on the part of anti-privatisation guerrillas seeking to force the govt's hand (a flippant example, I know ).
According to the CTer, almost everything has a hidden motivation lying behind the established facts of the matter.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Which sounds like paranoid delusional disorder to me.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Which sounds like paranoid delusional disorder to me.

Just because you're paranoid and delusional doesn't mean that crack Vatican stormtroopers aren't out to get you!

 

[8den]

One day maybe we will have a free education system - particularly in higher education, where people are free to put forward ideas - however distasteful and untrue they are -

You want an education system where people are allowed to teach things that aren't true?

 

[Aldebaran]

You want an education system where people are allowed to teach things that aren't true?

I think you just found a new conspiracy! Invented by AQ to undermine the brain functions of the Westerners.

salaam.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Skepdic

Paranoid conspiracy theories are very appealing to the uncritical or unstable mind. Those who are fantasy-prone, irrational thinkers, and those who may have psychological problems: paranoia, delusional disorder for example, can quickly get suckered into a strange world of fantasy and/or fear.

Delusional disorder (grandiose) shows up as: an exaggerated idea of identity; knowledge; power; self-worth and importance; a special relationship to God or someone famous; the belief in having a special mission. Many PCTs exhibit these characteristics.

Once critical thinking is applied, and a search for real evidence is sought, these extreme conspiracy theories are found to lack any credibility: they look like badly written science-fiction. In fact many of the leading proponents of these conspiracy theories, such as David Icke, are prolific authors: their books being classed under science-ficton or religion and spirituality.

Paranoid conspiracy theories are a prime example of irrational thinking.

 

[Aldebaran]

BK, that reads like a description of GW Bush & his Clan.

salaam.

 

[butchersapron]

There's another term for it - scriptocoprophalalia

 

[EddyBlack]

Is the deliberate starvation of certain groups by Stalin less despicable than Hitler’s holocaust of the Jews?

Both where seen as a means to an end.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjUwYmU0MDBhMGQxODAzZDkyNmExYWY0NmI1ZmIyNjU=

‘Recent emphasis on the singularity of the genocide of the Jews, by concentrating attention on an exceptional atrocity, blurs our perception of affairs of the same order in the Communist world.’

‘…In 1932-33 the famine deliberately engineered by Stalin in the Ukraine destroyed about six million men, women and children.’

‘… Communism transposed the language and conditions of wartime onto a civil and ideological ''front,'' bequeathing to modern radical politics a paramilitary language of interminable ''conflict.'' A permanent civil war of party-state versus society was inaugurated; its goal was a Gleichschaltung -- an atomized oneness -- different from that of Nazism only in its invocation of ''class'' instead of ''race'' and in its distinctive euphemisms: Nazis applied ''special treatment'' to the useless people they murdered, Communists ''liquidated'' those whom history, in their eyes, had already condemned.’

‘… Communism was applied in the ''East'' and justified in the ''West,'' whereas Nazism was a Western abomination whose evils were experienced closer to home (and one that left behind a fuller, more accessible visual record of its achievements). It is thus difficult for the left-liberal intelligentsia of the West, and not just in Paris, to let go of its memories and illusions, to reconcile itself to having been no wiser or better than Fascism's many foreign admirers in the 1930's.’

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...1A15751C1A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

 

[butchersapron]

What's that got to with anything?

You might as well ask if iwas watching the snooker last night.

 

[Aldebaran]

Is the deliberate starvation of certain groups by Stalin less despicable than Hitler’s holocaust of the Jews?

Does the delusional we are talking about here writes denial stories on that too?

salaam.

 

[EddyBlack]

Just thought I’d have my two cents, I think it is a fair question. Do communists accept that communist regimes deliberately murdered millions of people in close parallel to the NAZIs.

If so how do they justify they’re continued adherence to this hateful and murderous ideology?

 

[ViolentPanda]

There's another term for it - scriptocoprophalalia

Love of talking shite?

 

[butchersapron]

Just thought I’d have my two cents, I think it is a fair question. Do communists accept that communist regimes deliberately murdered millions of people in close parallel to the NAZIs.

If so how do they justify they’re continued adherence to this hateful and murderous ideology?

Who gives a fuck?

On this thread anyway. Ask 'em if the question us burning a hole in your clever pocket.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Is the deliberate starvation of certain groups by Stalin less despicable than Hitler’s holocaust of the Jews?

Both where seen as a means to an end.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjUwYmU0MDBhMGQxODAzZDkyNmExYWY0NmI1ZmIyNjU=

‘Recent emphasis on the singularity of the genocide of the Jews, by concentrating attention on an exceptional atrocity, blurs our perception of affairs of the same order in the Communist world.’

‘…In 1932-33 the famine deliberately engineered by Stalin in the Ukraine destroyed about six million men, women and children.’

‘… Communism transposed the language and conditions of wartime onto a civil and ideological ''front,'' bequeathing to modern radical politics a paramilitary language of interminable ''conflict.'' A permanent civil war of party-state versus society was inaugurated; its goal was a Gleichschaltung -- an atomized oneness -- different from that of Nazism only in its invocation of ''class'' instead of ''race'' and in its distinctive euphemisms: Nazis applied ''special treatment'' to the useless people they murdered, Communists ''liquidated'' those whom history, in their eyes, had already condemned.’

‘… Communism was applied in the ''East'' and justified in the ''West,'' whereas Nazism was a Western abomination whose evils were experienced closer to home (and one that left behind a fuller, more accessible visual record of its achievements). It is thus difficult for the left-liberal intelligentsia of the West, and not just in Paris, to let go of its memories and illusions, to reconcile itself to having been no wiser or better than Fascism's many foreign admirers in the 1930's.’

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...1A15751C1A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

You are aware that this point has been mentioned 2 or 3 times already, aren't you?

Or perhaps not.