Bitcoin discussion and news

[littlebabyjesus]

Fair enough. I did misread.

However, your statement regarding the potential for crypto currencies to maintain value 'as long as there is human civilisation' is an unfounded assertion. We've already seen various schemes crumble into nothing. You may have seen through the scam that was terra luna but there were plenty of people like you recommending others to put money into it. And all the so-called stablecoins are at risk of going the same way. The demise of terra appeared to wipe out about 25% of the value of bitcoin, ethereum, etc (they all tend to go up and down together). The demise of something like Tether would have a far greater effect.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Who's claiming that they are beyond the left and right? Would love to research such people.

Fascists usually

 

[mojo pixy]

Because crypto is way easier to move and way easier to hide from anyone who wants to confiscate it.

Because it doesn't really exist, it's just code. But data can be wiped very easily.

An unhinged government can nick all the gold and silver at gunpoint, but someone who has been smart with crypto, can give up some of it and hide the rest, you know a bit of plausable denial.

Unhinged government ffs, I think common or garden thieves operating through code to steal digital assets are really honestly more of a threat to a digital stash, than the most 'unhinged government' is to a box in a hole in the ground in the woods nobody knows about.

There's nothing wrong with having both, as both are useful in their own way.

Precious metals are used in components for computers that mine bitcoins. Let's start there in our hierarchy of usefulness, hm?

Gold and silver will outlast civilisation, therefore is worth having on case the world goes totally "Mad Max".

However, blockchains will survive a long long long time, as long as there is human civilisation on this planet, or any planet for that matter.

Gemstones and precious metals will outlast EMPs, solar flares, war, disease, famine, will be exchanged for goods well into a new stone age. When computers are a race-memory we'll still be making monuments to them out out of gold and silver.

 

[Chilli.s]

I think he should go all in, whats the worst that could happen eh?

 

[StakerOne]

Fascists usually

Fascists are authoratarian, believing in centralised power around a leader.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Fascists are authoratarian, believing in centralised power around a leader.

Amazing insights. Have you got anything on where bears shit or the pope's religion?

 

[gosub]

Don't need to.
The wayback machine is moving it's pages over to the IPFS which is a distributed file system.
I love the way that all works.
IPFS Powers the Distributed Web
If you setup an IPFS node, you can help archive Urban75.

You do know way back is hackable?

 

[gosub]

You do know way back is hackable?

It's good and it's useful, but it's about as set in stone as Millibands election promises

 

[StakerOne]

Because it doesn't really exist, it's just code. But data can be wiped very easily.

Unhinged government ffs, I think common or garden thieves operating through code to steal digital assets are really honestly more of a threat to a digital stash, than the most 'unhinged government' is to a box in a hole in the ground in the woods nobody knows about.

Precious metals are used in components for computers that mine bitcoins. Let's start there in our hierarchy of usefulness, hm?

Gemstones and precious metals will outlast EMPs, solar flares, war, disease, famine, will be exchanged for goods well into a new stone age. When computers are a race-memory we'll still be making monuments to them out out of gold and silver.

I can see your reply is completely irrelevant to my view as can everyone else. Scroll back people, I clearly praised crypto and precious metals but they have different uses.

 

[StakerOne]

You do know way back is hackable?

Elaborate please. Thanks.

 

[StakerOne]

It's good and it's useful, but it's about as set in stone as Millibands election promises

The IPFS immutable so long as there is at least one node with the files. The files can't be amended because of the way IPfS works.

 

[gosub]

Elaborate please. Thanks.

I am not dudpose to, sorry

 

[StakerOne]

I am not dudpose to, sorry

As I said, the IPFS is secure, perfect for archiving websites.

 

[gosub]

As I said, the IPFS is secure, perfect for archiving websites.

Ducking predictive text. No. I am not disposed to.

 

[mojo pixy]

I can see your reply is completely irrelevant to my view as can everyone else. Scroll back people, I clearly praised crypto and precious metals but they have different uses.

Yes, and one really big, important difference is this: precious metals exist and have value.

 

[StakerOne]

Yes, and one really big, important difference is this: precious metals exist and have value.

But aharder to transport and much easier to confiscate and can't earn yield, unlike crypto.

 

[StakerOne]

Amazing insights. Have you got anything on where bears shit or the pope's religion?

You can't seem to grasp the context in which either of us are talking. Or you're just trolling.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Fascists are authoratarian, believing in centralised power around a leader.

A decentralised, permissionless ledger does not necessarily produce a decentralisation of wealth and power. Without anything (like a society, for instance) to stop wealth from accumulating more wealth, the most likely outcome of such a system is extreme concentration of wealth and power, and indeed this is exactly what has happened with both bitcoin and ethereum - a few individuals holding huge stakes.

 

[StakerOne]

A decentralised, permissionless ledger does not necessarily produce a decentralisation of wealth and power. Without anything (like a society, for instance) to stop wealth from accumulating more wealth, the most likely outcome of such a system is extreme concentration of wealth and power, and indeed this is exactly what has happened with both bitcoin and ethereum - a few individuals holding huge stakes.

The wealthy don't have as much centralised power because those that don't have wealth can organise without being disrupted (financially or otherwise) and they cant be censored.

 

[kabbes]

Insanity

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The wealthy don't have as much centralised power because those that don't have wealth can organise without being disrupted (financially or otherwise) and they cant be censored.

The bottom line of every scheme for variants on 'anarcho-capitalism' that I've ever come across has been that such a world emerging from this world would involve the capture of even more wealth by the wealthy, even more power by the powerful. Your ideas are no different. So-called 'libertarians' in the US suffer from exactly this problem - usually in the form of a flat-out denial of existing power and ownership structures.

Any political idea worth the name has some inclusion in it of how to get from here to there. Otherwise it's just dreaming. We can all do that, I know I do. But that's all it is. Realistically, we work from where we are now, with the wealth and power structures that exist now. Your scheme, like all 'anarcho-capitalist' schemes, would just make everything worse. It doesn't touch on the fundamental question 'who owns what?' It's the opposite of what needs to be done. It just provides even more mechanisms for the capture of wealth by the wealthy and the domination of the powerful.

You want to make a difference right now? Support the current strikes. Try to organise at work if you can. Those are the kinds of things that can make a difference. Boring, I know.

 

[StakerOne]

So-called 'libertarians' in the US suffer from exactly this problem - usually in the form of a flat-out denial of existing power and ownership structures.

I don't think anyone is denying existing power and ownership structures. It can be quite nuanced as to what is or isn't healthy in all of that, including what can be realistically done about it.

There's a lot of wealthy people that can and are being taxed at a higher rate to try and make it all fairer. But when you're talking about the kind of people who own large chunks of corporate entities like the Geoff Bezos and Bill Gates, there isn't an answer that within the political setup they have over there.

I don't believe in fighting centralised power by simply building up centralised power elsewhere, because the rot just continues. I certainly don't agree with the state deciding who owns what or anything that simply encourages people to rely on the state. Please don't mix that up with opposition to the NHS or welfare, because there is no better alternative...we should have an NHS and a welfare system, buta speaking of alternatives, that's why I believe in decentralisation - I can't see a better way.

With decentralisation, it's much easier to give people a say, a vote on issues. More and more companies will turn into decentralised DAOs. More and more DAOs will be formed to disrupt the corporates and DAO members (which would include workers) would have a lot more control over what it is they are working for.

Also, I take issue with "anarcho-capitalism". A DAO with the workers on it, can easily be a decentralised workers co-operative.

Ultimately a DAO is just a smart contract and DAOs can be grouped together, with what you call a "company", an entity like John Lewis for example, would be made up of multiple DAOs and the workers would be in one of them, with those DAOs interactiing with each other - anything is possible.

You can't stop it. No one can. Because those who interact with these systems realise, that they can keep on building and building in the realisation, that a pack of spiteful, vindictive, power hungry greedy cunts can't destroy what's been built because it got in the way of their nice little corrupt earner.

As for strikes, I support the strikes, at least morally. Best I've done so far is give the rail strikers a beep when driving past!

 

[mojo pixy]

But aharder to transport

Computer hard drive plus hi-tech infrastructure plus reliable electricity supply plus internet plus connection -vs- pocket, bag or box? lol good point!

and much easier to confiscate

If it can be found. Remember that hole in the ground? That shed in the woods? Great, because nobody else does

and can't earn yield, unlike crypto.

You mean its worth remains pegged to the material its made from, and to what I can exchange for it? Rather than inflating and deflating randomly each time someone on the interwebs gets a stiffy? Sounds awful, I see what you mean.

'Earn Yield' isn't even proper English ffs. Does it mean 'win unearned income' or does it mean 'facilitate parasitism'? Which of those is closer in meaning, would you say?

 

[SpineyNorman]

You can't seem to grasp the context in which either of us are talking. Or you're just trolling.

There's a well established pipeline from the so called libertarian right (which is what you are and advocate for however you wish to delude yourself) to the nationalist far right. I don't tend to take people at their word when they say they believe in freedom as it's essentially meaningless without strict definition. If you got your way there would be unprecedented levels of privately executed tyranny.

I'm not saying you're a fascist, just that you remind me of one and as far as I can tell you're not much better.

 

[StakerOne]

Computer hard drive plus hi-tech infrastructure plus reliable electricity supply plus internet plus connection -vs- pocket, bag or box? lol good point!

Cryptocurrencies can be transmitted. You know this, but you'r deliberatly being disengenous.
The private key to a wallet can be a small hardware wallet the size of a USB stick OR the ultimate portability of one's own wallet would be to simply memorise a 12 word phrase that is the backup of the wallet.

If it can be found. Remember that hole in the ground? That shed in the woods? Great, because nobody else does

Sure. But eventually, you'll dig up the gold and the partisans will confiscate the fucking lot when you get to one of their checkpoints.
Crypto? See above, you'll sail past the partisan checkpoint because they don't know about the 12 words you've memorised. Then when you get to civilisation, you can access the crypto.

'Earn Yield' isn't even proper English ffs. Does it mean 'win unearned income' or does it mean 'facilitate parasitism'? Which of those is closer in meaning, would you say?

It means something similar to earning interest. There's loads of different ways to earn yield.

I'm not saying you're a fascist, just that you remind me of one and as far as I can tell you're not much better.

I endorse a technology which is freedom squared. Nothing fascist about that.

As for whether I believe in freedom, well the bloody thing is permissionless, can't be confiscated and is censorship resistant and you can't even bring yourself to say "Well, that sounds good ... but"

You lose your credibility when you lose objectivity and perspective.

I'm not saying you're an authoratarian who wants all powerful government dictating to the people what they can and can't do, with everyone reliant on the state, but you sure sound like one!

 

[pbsmooth]

StakerOne is the epitomy of what so many people hate about crypto people.

 

[prunus]

<snip>

I have given you real world use cases of that, including:

• non-colateralised loans to facilitate arbitrage trading, making the markets more efficient, providing liquidity to decentralised exchanges, copy trading.
• Automatic refunds without involving humans - for example when a train is more than 20 minutes late.
• The automatic liquidisation of collaterised loans when the collateral has lost too much value, including selling back to the market AND for traders to be able to pick up the cheap collateral with uncollaterised loans to sell at profit.
• Protecting privacy by using zero knowledge proofs.

These things, CAN'T be done in traditional finance.

<snip>

I can’t comment on the 4th point, but those first three things are eminently possible, and indeed happening right now (and in the case of the first and third ones have been for at least 20 years from my own personal experience). I get automatic refunds for late trains regularly! All that’s needed is a data storage system and some logic. That could be done using blockchain as the system - but it doesn’t have to be by any means.

 

[mojo pixy]

Cryptocurrencies can be transmitted. You know this, but you'r deliberatly being disengenous.
The private key to a wallet can be a small hardware wallet the size of a USB stick OR the ultimate portability of one's own wallet would be to simply memorise a 12 word phrase that is the backup of the wallet.

That phrase won't open anything if the hard drive cannot be read. Honestly, I'm glad you mentioned disingenuousness because all your claims to wealth will require so much infrastructure (much of it based on precious metal availability and pricing etc) and stable, reliable electricity and wireless connectivity and the willingness of a baker to accept computer code as payment for bread. I just need pockets. But you know this! You're pretending there's so much more to it when .. there just isn't.

Sure. But eventually, you'll dig up the gold and the partisans will confiscate the fucking lot when you get to one of their checkpoints.

Whose? Where? How do you know? Nah this is just conspiracist rubbish. 'They'.

Crypto? See above, you'll sail past the partisan checkpoint because they don't know about the 12 words you've memorised. Then when you get to civilisation, you can access the crypto.

Assuming I find electricity, computers, unmonitored Web access etc. I expect finding a pawn shop for my pocket gold will be easier.

It means something similar to earning interest. There's loads of different ways to earn yield.

It's a tautology. Earnings and yield are basically the same thing. It's just a little word trick to make unearned uncomfortable sound like earned income. Normalising the parasites.

I endorse a technology which is freedom squared.

For the wealthy well-connected, tech-savvy, "digital human". Everyone else should just trust the code.

You lose your credibility when you lose objectivity and perspective.

lol no way did you just type this...

I'm not saying you're an authoratarian who wants all powerful government dictating to the people what they can and can't do, with everyone reliant on the state, but you sure sound like one!

Unlike you, who wants us all hanging desperately from a blockchain, beholden to coders, destitute without a power supply and Internet connection, at the mercy of anyone who can create an electromagnetic pulse.

Your way favours authoritarianism better than mine, so far. You got any more?

 

[StakerOne]

That phrase won't open anything if the hard drive cannot be read.

It's not a pasword. It's your private key backed up as 12 words, therefore, you can download a software wallet to a different PC or even on your mobile phone, tell it you're restoring a wallet from 12 words and then you've got access to your crypto again.
Do you understand the power of it yet? You can store most, or even all of your wealth, in your brain as 12 words.
Heck you could get your favourite book and choose the 8th word on every second page for example, then buy the book again somewhere else ... use your imagination!

Whose? Where? How do you know? Nah this is just conspiracist rubbish. 'They'.

OK. Refugees. You know what a refugee is don't you? Under tyranny, they typically can't get out of a country without massive problems. I've used this scenario before on here.
Imagine you're a Jew trying to escape Nazi Germany. It would be impossible to escape Germany without having all of your gold and silver confiscated ... unless of course you want it left in that hole in the ground but a fat lot of use it's down there when you really need liquid assets to spend in your new host country.
Had crypto been around on those days, you would have sold your precious metals, save for a few coins, for crypto, then used the small amount of precious metals to bribe border guards, slipping out of the country with your cryptos.

For the wealthy well-connected, tech-savvy, "digital human". Everyone else should just trust the code.

Or trust someone who knows what they are talking about, or heavens forbid, learn some basic programming like all the kids are. Money is programmable. That's not going away. Deal with it and stop blaming others for your short-comings.

Unlike you, who wants us all hanging desperately from a blockchain, beholden to coders, destitute without a power supply and Internet connection, at the mercy of anyone who can create an electromagnetic pulse.

There is no EMP that can knock out every computer on the planet, besides, even if their was, kiss goodbye to your beloved banking system. Then there is the fact that I've always endorsed both precious metals and crypto. It's a shame you're not as tolerant, but what authoratarian tyrant in the making is?

Your way favours authoritarianism better than mine, so far. You got any more?

No it doesn't. It doesn't supress anyone else or their way of doing things. Left unchecked without crypto, we'd wind up with CBDCs and social credits. If you love dealing in cash then great, because cryptos, the creation of an alternate ecomony that the government can't get at, sucks all the motivation away to create a dystopian CBDC that would rule our lives, Chinese Communist Party style.

 

[mojo pixy]

OK that's me done for now, we're way way too far down the rabbit hole, there are too many branches going deeper and I need some fresh air.

You can store most, or even all of your wealth, in your brain as 12 words.

One thing, only then: I care for people with brain injuries and dementia. It's good for them that what wealth they have isn't only accessible via their memory because if it was they'd be pretty fucked. How in libertarian cryptopia will people with acquired long-term disabilities or brain injuries, whose assets are lost because they don’t recall their phrase, get cared for?