That’s a lot of words just to basically agree that everybody will have to be a programmer and that you’re fucked if somebody has embedded something into a smart contract that shouldn’t be there. Y’know, like has already happened with NFTs that contain hidden bombs allowing third parties to steal everything in the wallet of anybody that the NFT is transferred to.
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Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
Remember kids. Don't drink the kool-aid.
I'm pretty sure I contested your notion of us all having to be programmers.
I would need a source for your claim about evil code embedded in NFTs before I can comment on it.
Such a scam would have to rely on the victim trying to send the NFT onto someone else - invokng an action that fools the user into running the code.
Unless they interact with the NFT in such a way they need to sign the transaction, or visit a malicous website, I can't see how that can happen.
My point being that Mastodon isn't immutable. Lens is more of a protocol that works across any Web3 website.
If implimented right on the website, you won't even know you're really using it ... yet you're using it just because you logged onto a web3 website/
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
Found a random NFT in your wallet? Interacting with it could be a big mistake.
Scammers are getting more creative by the week as NFT fever sweeps the world. In the early days of NFTs, you know, a few months ago, scammers tried things like bidding in USDC instead of ETH or provided links to fake versions of OpenSea…but now they’re getting even
www.morganlinton.com
And of course: Web3 Is Going Just Great cataloguing the $10Billon of theft and bad practice. I'm so pleased it's decentralised and unregulated.
If I noticed an NFT (or any other type of token) being sent to me that shows up up etherscan (How else would I even know of it?) - then I wouldn't try to do anything with it. If I had designs on selling it, I would first go to a reputable marketplace that has a whitelist of the "good" NFTs.Found a random NFT in your wallet? Interacting with it could be a big mistake.
Scammers are getting more creative by the week as NFT fever sweeps the world. In the early days of NFTs, you know, a few months ago, scammers tried things like bidding in USDC instead of ETH or provided links to fake versions of OpenSea…but now they’re getting even
And of course: Web3 Is Going Just Great cataloguing the $10Billon of theft and bad practice. I'm so pleased it's decentralised and unregulated.
People have long known to stay away from spammy tokens that hit their wallets.
I don't see where you are leading with this.
You could argue that normal simple people who aren't tech savvy don't stand a chance, but such people wouldn't even know about evil NFTs and airdrops hitting their wallet, because they wouldn't use websites such as Etherescan.
Most, if not all wallets don't show up NFTs and tokens unless they are either on some kind whitelist OR the user has added them in manually.
It's only the tech savvy that spot these things hitting their wallet through tools like etherscan and get wrecked if they interact without checking what it is they are dealing with.
You don't click on dodgy emails do you? No one is making the case to avoid setting up email accounts, are they?
EDIT TO ADD:
I read that website "Web3 is doing just great"
It makes a side swipe about our "already smouldering planet".
Most web3 websites use IPFS. IPFS makes the WWW much much more greener and efficient.
With Web2 if we continue the way we are going, we won't have the electricity to power datacentres. We can't just keep building datacentres to handle people's thirst for video content.
The IPFS will save us from having to build so many power-hungry data centres in the future, by reversing such a trend.
IPFS Powers the Distributed Web
As for NFT Discord servers - I don't care. It's a centralised service that hasn't been disrupted by Web3 ... yet.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The whole idea that anyone would want a decentralised, unregulated money supply is quite mad. The entire basis of money is that it provides external guarantees. Money represents an obligation. Crypto's assumptions see such obligations as necessarily serving some ill-defined power structure in an ill-defined evil way. But it has no answers to the questions that come up when you attempt to take obligation away from money. Using the old cliche, scamming isn't a bug of a system without obligation. It's a feature.
The scary thing is that I see people talking about this while making these assumptions without realising that they are making them.
The scary thing is that I see people talking about this while making these assumptions without realising that they are making them.
It really depends on what that unregulated money supply is being used for.
One good way to keep an argument going is to completly ignore all the reasons why people want a global unregulated decentralised money supply, focus on the end point, then just make a proclamation that it's "mad."
If it were regulated, it would be no different than normal money. It's value comes from it's utility, not from any obligation.
People tried to create efficient ways of transmitting money and every time they did, the authorities shut it down. It has been historically impossible to innovate.
Without the threat of cryptocurrencies, banks would never have bothered with "Open Banking".
There's plenty of scams on the internet that don't involve crypto. No one is saying the internet is "useless", "a solution to a problem", and "wall to wall with scams".
How about this for an argument "Proponents of the internet keep arguing that the dark web and all of it's scams are a feature. It's time to shut the thing down or regulate it with digital IDs so that we can monitor everything the user does and shut them out if they put a foot wrong!"
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
OK, but with my banking app I don't need to worry
So you are putting trust in a 3rd party centralised system to filter out the crap.
But with email scams you normally have to reply to the email, or open an attachment, with NFTs you just need to open it and it is not a bug it's a feature. The last 'just open an email bug was fixed decades ago.
So Bitcoin isn't using the same power as the Netherlands for something that is worthless?
So we are going to run out of power to mine Crypto too? Or how does that work?
If we don't have power for data centres we don't have power for data centres.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Your whatabouttery is absurd. And you don't understand what money is. (Hint: crypto isn't money.) Another hint: Money represents an obligation - that's where its utility comes from.
magneze
🎧
A social network where nothing can be deleted. Who wants this?
If crypto "money" is more sound than money and believe me, Ether is more sound money than money, then we can call it money, despite the fact that it's better than money and you don't like it.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Problem is that, for all your words, you don't have an argument.
'Believe me' isn't an argument.
Anyone who understand the direction of travel that we are in.
This goes beyond the right wing perception of "cancel culture".
We are at a crossroards.
Down one road is the decentralised world that I'm all for and the price we would pay is an immutable web ... and that immutable web is already here to be honest.
Down the other path we will wind up with a Chinese social credits system where an overbearing and corrupt government controls everything we do and we are past a point of no return whereby ANY critism of the powers that be would be deleted.
Two extremes I admit, but within a decade, I can't see how we will have anything that is inbetween the two.
I do because my argument doesn't rest on whether you believe it's sound money or not.Problem is that, for all your words, you don't have an argument.
'Believe me' isn't an argument.
More and more people believe it's sound money, better than fiat money, ergo, they are well within their rights to call it money.
I stress, however, that I have no wish for ETH to replace GBP. I would just love to see GBP used more and more on blockchains like Ethereum and Polygon. That's a good thing because otherwise our government would be incentivised to introduce a CBDC on their own infrastructure, withdrawing cash, allowing them to run all sorts of financial and social experiments where workers are paid with money that has to be spend within a certain amount of time.
I don't want to live in a world where the government can stop me from spending my money on a kebab just because they think I've exceeded my trans-fat quota for the month, or bans unemployed people from picking up a bottle of vodka from the offer licence. Do you?
It’s not money. You don’t know what money is. Money is more than just currency. It’s a unit of account. It represents social obligation. It’s lots of things that go beyond being a simple transactional tool.
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If you don't think it's money, then what's your problem with people using it, if it has different properties to conventional money?
Honestly, I could write you a book on the logical journey that people have before using it, along with why smart contract tech was conceived in the first place, but many of the counter arguments I get back, pretend that the starting point of crypto rests on replacing fiat currencies.
That simply isn't the case.
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
So the Government can see what we have said and create a DAO to weed out dissidents.
For example, the bat-shittist loons get into power in the USA and make LBGTQ+ illegal, if your social media is immutably linked to your identity and any transactions you carry out then the only thing you can do is hide as any time you interact with everything the govt will know where you are and pick you up.
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
postal orders? are they still a thing... yes
Write your book then. You might want to start by addressing the detailed issues that have already been raised myriad times in this thread. You think you’re raising original points? You think you’re saying anything we haven’t already heard 100 times over the last 10 years? Just look at how long this thread is.
Money is a unit of account. It’s what people account for their transactions in. People account for transactions according to the local rules, which are based on accounting principles and tax regulations. The tax authorities expect businesses to account in the state issued currency, so that the tax can be correctly calculated. This is all part of the power relations associated with money. None of that applies to cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrencies aren’t money.
Nope. They wouldn't need a DAO for that - they would just employ the services of a blockchain analytics firm.
Well if they made it illegal, then surely there would have been some kind of debate in both houses along with a huge amount of people posting content about it. That content would still stand - and a fair few million people would have made comments against it - heck lets face it, tens of millions of people would have made negative comments about such a draconian proposal - and all of that is up there on the net for good.
Sooo.... wtf do you think an evil government would do with tens of millions of dissidents?
Not a lot in a decentralsied world - they can damn well do business with whoever they want to at home and abroad because their money is immutabe, can't be frozen or confiscated.
But in a centralised world - bank accounts of anyone who steps out of line can be shut down.
Fast forward 10 years into the future. If crypto doesn't win, CBDCs will. In that world, an egovernment can force every known dissident to go without food for a week or two to teach them a lesson.
Look at what happened to the Canadian truckers. Even if you don't agree with that cause, surely you find it shocking that a government would resort to freezing the bank accounts of people who simply donated to the protests?
Your point please?
Supine
Newt Member
Or BACS, or Paypal or a tenner in a birthday card
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Properly evil governments can just kick your door in and drag you off. It's a very narrowly calibrated definition of 'evil' that might be thwarted by some bitcoin shit.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
True, but they have a hard time doing that to everyone at once.
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
Easily. If you need to interact with the govt in any way you need to accept a Token, if you are found to be a dissident then that Token will prevent you from doing whatever the government wants. Any businesses will also have to accept tokens that will prevent 'undesirables' from interacting with your business.
And although this is bollocks it is more likely than some Crypto utopia. The evidence is clear with the billions of dollars worth of scams that have taken place already when Crypto has a very small userbase.
It's a long thread because you pretending that people are pushng certain use cases for crypto that they aren't.
OK, so I'll run through your own logic with you the best I can.
The purpose of crypto-currencies is NOT to emulate or replace tradtional national currencies.
However, crypto-currencies have to actually exist to pay for the transaction charges on global public blockchains.
Now if you have a problem with global public blockchains, that is a seperate discussion.
But as far as I'm concerned, they are an important invention that will shape our futures whether we like it or not.
There are global markets on such blockchains. People arnd BLOCKCHAIN based businesses (Businesses that are crypto-native) have no problem for paying for entities using the native blockchain crypto-currency - that's it - it exists, that's an economy in it's own right and doesn't need to justify itself.
There are local markets on blockchains as well - and people want to be able to pay for entities using their local national currency., including me.
So please, stop painting this up as if crypto-currencies are being touted to replace national currencies. They aren't.
I fully take onboard your comments concerning local rules.
If I were to run a local business that is doing normal business but using the Ethereum network to transact, then I would be buying some ETH to fund the transactions, treating ETH as a commodity and then using a GBP stablecoin to pay for whatever is that I'm buying.
Especially if the country in question has citizens armed up to the teeth!
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Yeah, does seem far more likely that the tech will be used to centralise power than to do the opposite.
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