Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[TruXta]

Being traumatised is not the same as being offended, shocked, repulsed, angry, annoyed or finding something disagreeable/distasteful and people should be careful about overusing the word.

I'd argue that instead of triggering, she should have used traumatising, if that's what she meant. Everyone knows what that means, no lingo involved.

I think we're in danger of mansplaining here.

 

[fractionMan]

I think we're in danger of mansplaining here.

perhaps we should flag the thread with it.

 

[TruXta]

perhaps we should flag the thread with it.

Laurie Penny and her ilk, mansplained!

 

[cesare]

They could just say "warning" and be done with it. Warning: contains descriptions of rape and violence. That's simple enough.

 

[TruXta]

Being traumatised is not the same as being offended, shocked, repulsed, angry, annoyed or finding something disagreeable/distasteful and people should be careful about overusing the word.

I'd argue that instead of triggering, she should have used traumatising, if that's what she meant. Everyone knows what that means, no lingo involved.

If I may go back to this - being traumatised might well include being " offended, shocked, repulsed, angry, annoyed or finding something disagreeable/distasteful".... I don't see how one can create a clear distinction between being traumatised and being any of the above. If you do think that I think you need to explain it a bit more in detail to me.

 

[TruXta]

They could just say "warning" and be done with it. Warning: contains descriptions of rape and violence. That's simple enough.

Sure, but.... Trigger words - is that really so hard to get? I mean, I've seen that used for years, so it could be that I'm the odd one out.

 

[SpineyNorman]

(Somebody had to do it, may as well be me!)

 

[tufty79]

Even if you are one? I've heard plenty of people use the word in completely reasonable contexts, such as "this text contains triggers for x, y and z". How's that pleading victimhood? If you ARE in fact a victim of say for instance rape?

this.
i agree with greebo's waspvictim extension as well. but at the same time - particularly in terms of physical/sexual trauma - i am quite glad the term exists and is used in *some* contexts.
giving a name to something is getting power over it. saying something is 'triggering' rather than 'this is sending my brain on a one-way trip to loopyville when i encounter it, and i might go a bit fucking off on one at you as a result. even if you don't understand the reasons why, or get the logic' is more compact, and a little bit more helpful..
and it's a bit late to rename it now, innit?

 

[cesare]

Sure, but.... Trigger words - is that really so hard to get? I mean, I've seen that used for years, so it could be that I'm the odd one out.

I don't think it's hard to get. TV etc have been using these warnings for a lot longer than "trigger warning" or "TW" became popular.

 

[tufty79]

They could just say "warning" and be done with it. Warning: contains descriptions of rape and violence. That's simple enough.

actually, this. this is pretty much perfect - no jargon, no eggshells, just a straight statement.
thanks, cesare.

the other thing i've found, on the other side of trigger warnings being positive, is that they can be triggers themselves. triggery triggering triggered times recently

 

[SpineyNorman]

In the context it was used here, though, deeply triggering meant 'what you are saying makes me look bad and the only way I know of dealing with criticism is to smear my critics and play the victim so I'm going to use lingo that was meant to protect people - for example rape victims - to prevent people criticizing me, in the process silencing a... oh...'

 

[tufty79]

In the context it was used here, though, deeply triggering meant 'what you are saying makes me look bad and the only way I know of dealing with criticism is to smear my critics and play the victim so I'm going to use lingo that was meant to protect people - for example rape victims - to prevent people criticizing me, in the process silencing a... oh...'

i dunno. in the context of my experiences, LP's experiences, and this

saying something is 'triggering' rather than 'this is sending my brain on a one-way trip to loopyville when i encounter it, and i might go a bit fucking off on one at you as a result. even if you don't understand the reasons why, or get the logic'

i am more than prepared to believe that she was genuinely upset.

i went mental at somone t'other week for playing jive bunny, ffs. because it's one of my more wtf (to the outside world) portals to being in the same brainspace as my brother

traumabrain: like a free tardis. except someone else has the keys, and you don't know which particular horror you're going to go back to at any given time.

 

[caleb]

How many columnists is Paddick worth?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/1866274.stm

It's moronic anyway. There are journalists, writers, authors and all sorts on here. I remember that Naomi Klein liked to 'engage' back in the day, and still does afaik. Funny how she manages it without being a total dick eh? (awaits torrent of Klein is dick anecdotes). Apart from that, journos have always been trying to wheedle their way into' groups for one reason or another, whether it's for hatchet jobs or the gloriously naked careerism of the likes of Laurie.

I think it's more than trying to wheedle their way into groups or whatever. I have no doubt there are journalists with radical politics for whom 'radicalism' isn't part of their job. It's the opposite for Penny, who is paid to be a 'radical'.

 

[frogwoman]

yeh and also the warning lets you imagine the content (or whatever) might be worse than it is.

 

[cesare]

actually, this. this is pretty much perfect - no jargon, no eggshells, just a straight statement.
thanks, cesare.

the other thing i've found, on the other side of trigger warnings being positive, is that they can be triggers themselves. triggery triggering triggered times recently

I find if you see "trigger" everywhere it can feel as if the TWs are crowding in on you.

 

[TruXta]

In the context it was used here, though, deeply triggering meant 'what you are saying makes me look bad and the only way I know of dealing with criticism is to smear my critics and play the victim so I'm going to use lingo that was meant to protect people - for example rape victims - to prevent people criticizing me, in the process silencing a... oh...'

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I think it's unfair to generalise from LP's usage to wider usage, is all. Anyway, sidetrack, I'm out for a fag. (No triggering intended. Or sniggering.)

 

[frogwoman]

trigger warning: smoking

 

[tufty79]

yeh and also the warning lets you imagine the content (or whatever) might be worse than it is.

and *nothing* can be worse than imagined content. srsly. why d'you think i/other people argue on here and then fuck off and refuse to log back in for a bit

 

[TruXta]

and *nothing* can be worse than imagined content. srsly. why d'you think i/other people argue on here and then fuck off and refuse to log back in for a bit

We all have lives to lead? RIGHT. FAGS.

 

[frogwoman]

and *nothing* can be worse than imagined content. srsly. why d'you think i/other people argue on here and then fuck off and refuse to log back in for a bit

seriously, i do the same myself. i don't log in or look at threads i've called someone a cunt or whatever on because i don't want to know what people have said about/to me

 

[tufty79]

We all have lives to lead?

how dare you

 

[SpineyNorman]

i dunno. in the context of my experiences, LP's experiences, and this

i am more than prepared to believe that she was genuinely upset.

i went mental at somone t'other week for playing jive bunny, ffs. because it's one of my more wtf (to the outside world) portals to being in the same brainspace as my brother

traumabrain: like a free tardis. except someone else has the keys, and you don't know which particular horror you're going to go back to at any given time.

I'm willing to believe she was upset too, but my experiences with Ms Penny lead me to suspect that the reason why she found it upsetting had more to do with it making her look bad - and, to credit her with some humanity, making her feel guilty - than any kind of deep-seated trauma. Certainly how it appeared if you look at the preceding posts and it's in line with her previous behaviour, which is all we really have to go on.

 

[TruXta]

how dare you

I'm more afraid of the OH than I am of you lot?

 

[frogwoman]

sometimes i do have to step away from the thread though, not because of trauma but because i can get really fucking angry about some things and just think about it for hours and what a cunt so and so is.

with ocd/anxiety stuff, i've got a lot better at "facing it" over the years.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I do think trigger warnings can have a place though. I once relapsed on an addiction because of something I saw on the telly that reminded me of the euphoria of drug use. If there'd been some kind of warning on there I probably wouldn't have watched it. Something else might have 'triggered' that relapse later on but I probably wouldn't have done it that day. I do think, as cesare said if I understood her properly, that rather than the fairly generic label 'triggering' more specific words to identify the type of 'trigger' would be more appropriate and it wouldn't be so open to abuse IMO

 

[Tom A]

They could just say "warning" and be done with it. Warning: contains descriptions of rape and violence. That's simple enough.

That predates the internet by some way, on TV programmes you have had a voice-over announce that "viewers may find the content of this programme/news piece disturbing/upsetting" for years.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I think it's unfair to generalise from LP's usage to wider usage, is all. Anyway, sidetrack, I'm out for a fag. (No triggering intended. Or sniggering.)

I found that comment deeply triggering. I haven't touched a cigarette for a week but you've just re-triggered my nicotine addiction and I'm off out to smoke 40 Marlboro and some fuck off cigars. And it's all your fault for not giving a trigger warning

 

[Firky]

Have a quick search of stavver's use of trigger warnings, sometimes it is understandable and at other times it's almost hyperbolic but mostly just surplus:

Another Angry Woman
‏@stavvers
#acab Trigger warning.RT @TransMediaWatch The London police have been accused of transphobia during a brutal arrest *LINK*

I mean really?

 

[Tom A]

(Somebody had to do it, may as well be me!)

 

[SpineyNorman]

frogwoman had some really interesting stuff to say about trigger warnings and mental health in a blog post she did a bit back. Do you mind if I link to that froggy?