Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[el-ahrairah]

wasn't she lucky to go to a prestigious private school too? she's one lucky girl for sure.

some would say, born lucky.

 

[sihhi]

The teenager saying this

The other had ambitions to be a foreign correspondent and was deeply suspicious of the culture of adventurism in conflict reporting.

reminded me of this attack on everyone here

activism is tiring and we all need to relax, but is chilling out by slagging off people who are actually trying to help really the best use of radical downtime? Quite apart from the fact that I happen to be a real person, and not your counter-revolutionary wank-fantasy. I'm a 26-year old woman with a mum and a dad and baby sisters and a job I work hard at and politics I believe in and am prepared to put everything on the line for

peppered of course with this stuff

That's it. Sorry, guys, but I'm not going back out there today. Really don't want to be arrested and deported just for journalism #s17 (Twitter explanation for leaving early US 17 Sep 2012 protests with police cut offs and blocks)

the line between activism and media production has become smudged to the point of irrelevance.But there’s a line in the sand, and you cross it when you start making most of your living writing about politics. Because once you have decided that you will always tell the truth you see in front of you, no matter what your bosses say, you have to decide what’s more important: your career or your conscience. (2012 Essay)

a snapshot of a nation in the grip of a very modern crisis where young and old see little reason to go on, the left is scattered and the far right is assuming greater power and influence. Along the way they drink far too much coffee, become hypnotised by street art, and somehow manage not to get arrested or mugged. (Discordia Introduction 2012)

 

[frogwoman]

radical downtime

 

[Bakunin]

wasn't she lucky to go to a prestigious private school too? she's one lucky girl for sure.

With such miraculous luck maybe I should ask her for next week's lottery numbers.

Shame her memory is a little more suspect than her incredible good fortune, though...

 

[sihhi]

radical downtime

In your case, because you are a young woman you have a defence for examining LP's articles - it's better radical downtime than taking up smoking.

One of them smoked a succession of perfect, hand-rolled cigarettes of the sort I didn’t learn to construct until my twenties, and asked me intelligent questions about rape culture and the application of feminist theory to campaigning. The other had ambitions to be a foreign correspondent and was deeply suspicious of the culture of adventurism in conflict reporting.
They asked me about ethics, about how to deal with sexism at school, about privilege, about trauma. Staring up from the bottom of two gins, I tried to give helpful answers that weren’t simply asking them to please stop smoking, because it’s taken me years to quit and clearly we need young women like them around for a long time because the world isn’t going to save itself.

What kind of teenagers ask their elders about "privilege"? Those who attend posh parties ?

I found myself squirrelled away in the corner of a posh party, talking politics with two teenage girls.

 

[TruXta]

Pretty sure she was back on the fags around the time of Maggie's death #notastalker

 

[andysays]

You mock, but which of us would be brave enough to challenge privilege in the Toronto yoga community?

Has anyone suggested yet that we should be taking a flexible position in this case?

 

[andysays]

It might not be a lie, it is possible to recieve NHS treatment and have private health insurance too, and to recieve a mixture of both NHS and private care. Private healthcare in this country always leeches off the NHS anyway. Without getting into lurid levels of detail about her illness there's no way to knowing for sure and so I'd rather not speculate over it. I don't really care a great deal if Laurie Penny has or had private healthcare insurance anyway...

I agree. She might be talking about two separate bits of treatment on two separate occasions.

In the interests of full disclosure (and in case anyone still reading wants to argue again that I'm posher than Laurie Penny, FFS), I can reveal that I had a stay in a psychiatric hospital paid for by private health insurance which my then partner had as a result of her job.

I've also had a couple of shorter stays in NHS psych hospitals, and whilst I'd rather that all hospitals were of the same standard as the best private ones, I'd be loathe to attack anyone for making use of private health care in an emergency (awaits flaming...)

 

[sihhi]

I agree. She might be talking about two separate bits of treatment on two separate occasions.

It's possible but reading all articles looking closely at the statement, it is a conditional:

"I was incredibly lucky in the care I recieved, which I got because I had private healthcare cover. If I had been treated by the NHS, there's every chance I wouldn't be alive today."

It has a straight meaning - treatment by the NHS did not happen, the treatment (which the articles cumulatively reveal lasted nine months inpatient (first and only stay) plus a bit longer via outpatient or visits, with full recovery and no return to either) was private.
The points made have nothing to do with anyone's illness, but about misrepresentation (or shocking weak representation) of the private healthcare accessed. It's on her own conscience what she writes - no one can prove it. It's less worse than Ken Livingstone refusing to answer questions on private healthcare (but then admitting he had bought private healthcare), she hasn't bought the healthcare, her parents have no one here has attacked LP for her circumstance of birth.

 

[DotCommunist]

Wasn't Kyriarchy one of these guys?

Thats Steel

 

[Steel Icarus]

Thats Steel

 

[DotCommunist]

no sign of Jet, creeping racism

 

[el-ahrairah]

she's always banging on about feminism but she doesn't appear (as a punter or as a speaker, let alone as an organiser) at any feminism events, conferences, protests, discussion groups etc. pure lip service, as ever.

 

[Bakunin]

she's always banging on about feminism but she doesn't appear (as a punter or as a speaker, let alone as an organiser) at any feminism events, conferences, protests, discussion groups etc. pure lip service, as ever.

Not entirely accurate, to be fair. If the events in question are good for increased publicity and/or a fat appearance fee then she's been known to appear at them. Although her type tend to turn up to the opening of a door if it's likely to fit those criteria.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Has anyone suggested yet that we should be taking a flexible position in this case?

To be fair, people have been bending over backwards to avoid provoking the Toronto yoga community.

 

[frogwoman]

It's been a flyaway success.

 

[tufty79]

she's always banging on about feminism but she doesn't appear (as a punter or as a speaker, let alone as an organiser) at any feminism events, conferences, protests, discussion groups etc. pure lip service, as ever.

she was a speaker at slutwalk in 2011..

 

[el-ahrairah]

It's been a flyaway success.

Toronton PD comrades challenging white privilege, yesterday.

 

[tufty79]

she was a speaker at slutwalk in 2011..

with a *cough* relevant-to-the-theme-of-the-day slogan written on her belly
(seriously, laurie. the whole 'we should have riots, and we shouldn't diet' thing has its time and place. but i fail to see where it belongs comfortably/obviously in the whole 'no means no' arena )



e2a: randoms like this one were clearly making a more appropriate statement. especially with the glittery moustache



er, yeah. didn't think that one through time to check my hypocrisy privilege

 

[el-ahrairah]

she was a speaker at slutwalk in 2011..

it's halfway through 2013. she could show up more than once in every few years to events in her hometown that she feels are so incredibly important. she's devoted more time to telling oxbridge wankers how ace they are than encouraging women of any classes towards action or empowerment. except stripping, of course. she loves her a stripper. they're the most empowered of all.

 

[el-ahrairah]

with a *cough* relevant-to-the-theme-of-the-day slogan written on her belly
(seriously, laurie. the whole 'we should have riots, and we shouldn't diet' thing has its time and place. but i fail to see where it belongs comfortably/obviously in the whole 'no means no' arena )

View attachment 37003

well, there are much worse. the anti-feminist ladies wandering around with their baps out to absorb all the media footage with a different message, fo a start.

 

[J Ed]

Ineffectual platitudes not thing!

 

[tufty79]

Ineffectual platitudes not thing!

are you missing some words there?

 

[J Ed]

are you missing some words there?

I just find it a really weird for her to use any slogan including the word riot, I mean is she proposing to start a riot or even multiple riots? Doesn't she think 'fuck those who use violence against violence'?

 

[tufty79]

I just find it a really weird for her to use any slogan including the word riot, I mean is she proposing to start a riot or even multiple riots? Doesn't she think 'fuck those who use violence against violence'?

nice riots. obvs.

 

[rekil]

The teenager saying this

The other had ambitions to be a foreign correspondent and was deeply suspicious of the culture of adventurism in conflict reporting.

reminded me of this attack on everyone here

It reminded me that LP said she had wanted to be a foreign correspondent in some last minute piece of unarsedness or other recently. It's almost as if...

Besides, was this a children's party with 20 somethings mooching about? Or a 'grownups' party with a smattering of kids? Posh people are sooo decadent.

 

[gawkrodger]

guessing this is the best thread for this. Genuinely pretty good article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/18/trade-union-bosses-journalists

 

[sihhi]

Maybe more of a why Guardian is in pan example.

I went to the biggest event on the trade union calendar, the Durham Miners' Gala, last weekend. Notably absent among the brass bands, ale and working-class politics were the columnists furnishing us with their opinions on unions just a week earlier. These commentators were also lacking during last year's GMB, PCS and Unite conferences (and I should know – I went to all three)

Union full-timer bigging up their own work surely not?

but you can forget any support for the working class as soon as it starts standing up and demanding rights; as soon as it refuses to be totally deferential to a professional class that thinks it knows best

Exactly the same thing could be said of the professional class that McCluskey is at the head of and she in the middle of. Naturally most Guardians won't remember how Unite's lawyers threatened Visteon workers with expulsion and no legal help if they didn't vacate their factory occupation.
I'm sure UNITE members could make the point better though.

 

[andysays]

To be fair, people have been bending over backwards to avoid provoking the Toronto yoga community.

Standing on their heads...

Tying themselves in knots...

This shit just writes itself

 

[andysays]

...Exactly the same thing could be said of the professional class that McCluskey is at the head of and she in the middle of. Naturally most Guardians won't remember how Unite's lawyers threatened Visteon workers with expulsion and no legal help if they didn't vacate their factory occupation.
I'm sure UNITE members could make the point better though.

As a UNITE member, I'm happy to support both your point and and your way of making it