Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[frogwoman]

how has selma james influenced laurie at all? from the article it sounds like laurie penny is the sort of thing selma james is going on about.

 

[sihhi]

If I assume that the essayist is a self-regarding emotional dwarf who has less right to be alive than a Tory MP, does that make me prejudiced?

If you are non-queer, then yes, most likely.
Compare it to how love detective's joke about LP's poor grammar is probably sexist.

ViolentPanda / Love Detective vs Sunny Drake / Laurie Penny
'Non-Queer'/ Male vs Queer / Female
Status: Privileged vs Oppressed

Malcolm took it to extremes
U75 posters / TNI editor Malcolm Harris
Citizens of Britain / Citizen of America (anti-colonial, Yorktown)
Status: Privileged / Oppressed

 

[Louis MacNeice]

how has selma james influenced laurie at all? from the article it sounds like laurie penny is the sort of thing selma james is going on about.

Surely James is just an attempted value adding name check, not a genuine source of influence?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[el-ahrairah]

how has selma james influenced laurie at all? from the article it sounds like laurie penny is the sort of thing selma james is going on about.

i'm sure that, like many people, LP is perfectly capable of cognitive dissonance regarding her own behaviour.

 

[DotCommunist]

I'd say to a greater extent than most tbf

 

[andysays]

In this one she says "she comes from a tradition of socialist and anarchist thinking which is at odds with the party structure, which is autonomism. [...] I'm an internet journalist which sits very very badly indeed with any party format right now."

Lies.

I can only presume you're unaware of the strong tradition of socialist and anarchist thinking at Brighton College and within the English dept of Wadham College, Oxford. Haters gonna hate...

 

[rekil]

I can only presume you're unaware of the strong tradition of socialist and anarchist thinking at Brighton College and within the English dept of Wadham College, Oxford. Haters gonna hate...

Joining Labour and interning and campaigning for their MPs is a *little* bit socialism tbf.

She did a happy clappy piece on Iceland's pirate party. Why doesn't she join the UK branch of those eejits?

 

[sihhi]

Also it assumes that the only racism that matters is the one based on skin colour. What about Catholics v Protestants in Northern Ireland? Or people not being served in pubs because they "look like pikeys"?

Because you're white your objections don't much matter. (Unless you can list half a dozen projects with nonwhite people as an overwhelming majority.)
Remember this is the real practical application (ignoring the psychology stuff about confusing names).
It recommends you do avoid following

- The times when I have tokenised people of colour by thinking “shit, my project is really white, I should ask some people of colour to be a part of it”

- When I have given more support, time and resources to white projects and individuals. It doesn’t matter if this was by default (like who happened to ask me). ... In a world where these communities are systemically barred from access to resources, it is racist to perpetuate this on a personal level in my own life.

Basically it is my responsibility to seek out and support people of colour and Indigenous people (if and when my support is welcome)

 

[rekil]

23 Oxbridge offers for Brighton College pupils - A new record

A thicket of clenched fists. Brighton College's socialist and anarchist tradition continues apace.

 

[sihhi]

within the English dept of Wadham College, Oxford. Haters gonna hate...

Oddly enough, Marxist Terry Eagleton is/was a professor and fellow of Wadham College.
Several leftist-socialist creative workers have done English from Wadham including Lindsay Anderson (film maker for If..), actor Jodhi May, and leftist British Asian authors Hari Kunzru and Monica Ali. There's probably others.

 

[frogwoman]

Because you're white your objections don't much matter. (Unless you can list half a dozen projects with nonwhite people as an overwhelming majority.)
Remember this is the real practical application (ignoring the psychology stuff about confusing names).
It recommends you do avoid following

- The times when I have tokenised people of colour by thinking “shit, my project is really white, I should ask some people of colour to be a part of it”

- When I have given more support, time and resources to white projects and individuals. It doesn’t matter if this was by default (like who happened to ask me). ... In a world where these communities are systemically barred from access to resources, it is racist to perpetuate this on a personal level in my own life.

Basically it is my responsibility to seek out and support people of colour and Indigenous people (if and when my support is welcome)

My best mate is Asian, I only get to see him every month or couple of months because it's too expensive to travel into London. However I work in an office where everyone is white.

Besides isn't saying that you'll going to seek out people of colour just another way of "tokenising"? whenever i've been talking about this sort of stuff with people i don't know i feel pretty uncomfortable with people saying things like "your people all work really hard and look after each other really well" and that sort of compliment (although they don't mean anything by it, it's mostly people in their 50s and 60s that say that sort of thing lol). or feeling sorry for me because i'm oppressed or something, it's really really irritating. I'm sure that black people must get it even more, being patronised etc because they are black or being "seeked out and supported" when they may not want to be.

And anyway if you do this aren't you just perpetuating a way of seeing everyone through a prism based on race? And it's still the noble savage thing, those black people etc are such beautiful exotic creatures and they've got to be helped and supported (by middle class white people) whenever you can.

Or am I misreading the whole thing?

 

[Sue]

23 Oxbridge offers for Brighton College pupils - A new record

A thicket of clenched fists. Brighton College's socialist and anarchist tradition continues apace.

A bit Henman at Wimbledon esque.

 

[andysays]

A thicket of clenched fists. Brighton College's socialist and anarchist tradition continues apace.

Most of those fists look suspiciously right-handed to me



Check 3.40 onwards for the correct way to do it...

 

[rekil]

A bit Henman at Wimbledon esque.

Distinct lack of enthusiasm from 4-eyes on the left. We'll have to keep an eye on him.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Distinct lack of enthusiasm from 4-eyes on the left. We'll have to keep an eye on him.

PD sleeper who needs to sharpen up his deep cover skills.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[caleb]

Oddly enough, Marxist Terry Eagleton is/was a professor and fellow of Wadham College.
Several leftist-socialist creative workers have done English from Wadham including Lindsay Anderson (film maker for If..), actor Jodhi May, and leftist British Asian authors Hari Kunzru and Monica Ali. There's probably others.

Does kind of make me feel a little bit sick there are people out there who'll pick an Oxford / Cambridge college because 'it's the left-wing one'. Scum.

 

[andysays]

Oddly enough, Marxist Terry Eagleton is/was a professor and fellow of Wadham College.
Several leftist-socialist creative workers have done English from Wadham including Lindsay Anderson (film maker for If..), actor Jodhi May, and leftist British Asian authors Hari Kunzru and Monica Ali. There's probably others.

That's either or , depending on how serious you are about using that particular combination of words...

 

[sihhi]

And anyway if you do this aren't you just perpetuating a way of seeing everyone through a prism based on race? And it's still the noble savage thing, those black people etc are such beautiful exotic creatures and they've got to be helped and supported (by middle class white people) whenever you can.

Or am I misreading the whole thing?

For middle-class blacks and middle-class whites, everything is based on race note the term is white supremacy not Western capitalism - that's what's being struggled against.

Hence, broadly, anything that promotes a black over a white in any field is a positive blow - the white become less supreme. China giving marginally cheaper loans to Africa, the ANC's black empowerment strategy, NBC putting black presenters on air, people going on holiday to Morocco rather than Spain, Obama in the White House, Beyonce selling more than any other solo artist in the world, the New Statesman giving freelance opportunities for middle-class black journalists, middle-class white allies finding woc or poc or joc for projects ... it's all part of this struggle.

 

[frogwoman]

Hence, broadly, anything that promotes a black over a white in any field is a positive blow - the white become less supreme. China giving marginally cheaper loans to Africa, the ANC's black empowerment strategy, NBC putting black presenters on air, people going on holiday to Morocco rather than Spain, Obama in the White House, Beyonce selling more than any other solo artist in the world, the New Statesman giving freelance opportunities for middle-class black journalists, middle-class white allies finding woc or poc or joc for projects ... it's all part of this struggle.

OH MY FUCKING GOD

I can't believe there are people who write these things in all seriousness.

 

[rekil]

Michael Foot, Cecil Day-Lewis and somebody who was on masterchef.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wadham_College_people

Laura is described as "an author and social activist".

 

[frogwoman]

I don't think I've ever started any projects let alone seek out and involve any people of colour in them. The one thing I did was starting a campaign and petition against bus closures in my area, I don't remember the races of people who signed the petition tho. Should I have done an intersectional analysis before I did it?

 

[J Ed]

For middle-class blacks and middle-class whites, everything is based on race note the term is white supremacy not Western capitalism - that's what's being struggled against.

Hence, broadly, anything that promotes a black over a white in any field is a positive blow - the white become less supreme. China giving marginally cheaper loans to Africa, the ANC's black empowerment strategy, NBC putting black presenters on air, people going on holiday to Morocco rather than Spain, Obama in the White House, Beyonce selling more than any other solo artist in the world, the New Statesman giving freelance opportunities for middle-class black journalists, middle-class white allies finding woc or poc or joc for projects ... it's all part of this struggle.

Smash the G8! Towards the G20!

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Oddly enough, Marxist Terry Eagleton is/was a professor and fellow of Wadham College.
Several leftist-socialist creative workers have done English from Wadham including Lindsay Anderson (film maker for If..), actor Jodhi May, and leftist British Asian authors Hari Kunzru and Monica Ali. There's probably others.

What are Jodhi May's leftist credentials?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[sihhi]

That's either or , depending on how serious you are about using that particular combination of words...

Just taking on board the point others have made that LP is not unique.
Cheltenham College-educated Lindsay Anderson studied English Lit and Classics from Wadham, Oxford, he founded his own magazine Sequence, the moved onto writing stuff in support of leftist cinema in Sight and Sound, then became the New Statesman's film critic for a long while, before producing If... a film about how horrible private schools were for their rich pupils.
Then became artistic director at the Royal Court in the early seventies when leftist theatre and plays (lots about women, strikes and working conditions, stuff against the NF, stuff against apartheid) were put on there and across plenty of venues.

 

[J Ed]

I don't think I've ever started any projects let alone seek out and involve any people of colour in them. The one thing I did was starting a campaign and petition against bus closures in my area, I don't remember the races of people who signed the petition tho. Should I have done an intersectional analysis before I did it?

I noticed a Socialist Action member (and they seem to be the worst for this stuff, even worse than the SWP) on an FB event talk about how great and representative the Trayvon Martin protest outside the US embassy was purely based on the 'representativeness' of the speakers. No comment on what was said, what happened or what had been achieved.

So, yes, perhaps you are supposed to focus more on the race of the people you are working with than what you are actually doing.

 

[butchersapron]

Or what they are doing.

 

[sihhi]

What are Jodhi May's leftist credentials?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

appeared in and promoted left-wing/feminist plays eg Blackbird, also appeared in pro 'normalisation of homosexual relations across all time periods' TV and film stuff like Tipping the Velvet.
I think English at Oxford has a minority current of being pro-leftist causes, whether that's meaningful or not is another question.

 

[J Ed]

Or what they are doing.

I meant you plural

 

[butchersapron]

Michael Foot, Cecil Day-Lewis and somebody who was on masterchef.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wadham_College_people

Laura is described as "an author and social activist".

Tariq Ali's daughter. (Not LP, but another Wahdamitte)

 

[rekil]

There are no "people of colour" in this pic. There are 3 or 4 asians, but are rich asians "people of colour"? Are state-school non-university whiteys required to defer, check their privilege, step back etc?