Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Mandalaa]

Hello Seaneen, welcome to urban.

She's already kicking around here somewhere, I signed up via facebook which told me I have 2 facemates already on here - hence I ran a search for her name and found this

 

[butchersapron]

What does "What does valid mean?" mean?

It means that i'm asking you what valid means in the context of describing laurie pennie's experiences as valid. As used here:

Yes, I am sure going to Oxford was rather helpful in terms of networking and building a higher profile career but I don't like the implication that said experiences are any less valid as a result of her being afforded certain privileges.

It implies that posters here have ruled her experiences invalid and (more complicatedly) that there are experiences that are valid/invalid. There is no such implication on this thread.

 

[Mandalaa]

There was a bit of inverse snobbery that *implied* she was amongst a breed of leftie/activist media types whose socio-economic background and associated privileges leave them ill-equipped to authoritatively or authentically write about issues around social injustice and marginalisation.

I only skim read a few pages though, so if I got the wrong end of the stick - good!

 

[Idris2002]

There was a bit of inverse snobbery that *implied* she was amongst a breed of leftie/activist media types whose socio-economic background and associated privileges leave them ill-equipped to authoritatively or authentically write about issues around social injustice and marginalisation.

I only skim read a few pages though, so if I got the wrong end of the stick - good!

Seems, madam? Nay, it is.

 

[butchersapron]

There was a bit of inverse snobbery that *implied* she was amongst a breed of leftie/activist media types whose socio-economic background and associated privileges leave them ill-equipped to authoritatively or authentically write about issues around social injustice and marginalisation.

I only skim read a few pages though, so if I got the wrong end of the stick - good!

It's not inverse snobbery, it's researched critique. Her experiences are valid no matter what. The problem is that they don't stop meaning something at her.

Welcome to the boards btw

 

[el-ahrairah]

She's already kicking around here somewhere, I signed up via facebook which told me I have 2 facemates already on here - hence I ran a search for her name and found this

they all say they don't read us, but they do.

 

[andysays]

There was a bit of inverse snobbery that *implied* she was amongst a breed of leftie/activist media types whose socio-economic background and associated privileges leave them ill-equipped to authoritatively or authentically write about issues around social injustice and marginalisation.

I only skim read a few pages though, so if I got the wrong end of the stick - good!

Hmm, is it really inverse snobbery to suggest that her socio-economic background and associated privileges, which of their very nature mean that she has at best a partial experience of social injustice and marginalisation, leave her at least partially ill-equipped to authoritatively or authentically write about those issues?

Or is it perhaps that her socio-economic background and associated privileges lead to her writing about those issues (any issues) in a way which suggests that only she is equipped to do so authoritatively or authentically?

Smartest kid in a smart school syndrome...

 

[Lo Siento.]

There was a bit of inverse snobbery that *implied* she was amongst a breed of leftie/activist media types whose socio-economic background and associated privileges leave them ill-equipped to authoritatively or authentically write about issues around social injustice and marginalisation.

I only skim read a few pages though, so if I got the wrong end of the stick - good!

Inverse snobbery like its cousin "reverse racism" isn't a real thing you know.

 

[Mandalaa]

You know, I am usually the first to be sick in my mouth when someone uses the term 'reverse/inverse snobbery' but every once in a blue moon I find cause to call someone out for it.

I've been guilty of it in the past. It's easy to get carried away slagging off/picking holes in someone on that basis.

 

[butchersapron]

Don't be calling people out for stuff. Not on here.

 

[Lo Siento.]

You know, I am usually the first to be sick in my mouth when someone uses the term 'reverse/inverse snobbery' but every once in a blue moon I find cause to call someone out for it.

I've been guilty of it in the past. It's easy to get carried away slagging off/picking holes in someone on that basis.

Go with your first instinct.

 

[Balbi]

June 21st, 2013. Skynet becomes self-aware.

Laurie Penny @PennyRed
@OwenJones84 @lisybabe also, I know how hard it is to take on board critique when you're getting attacked on all sides by vicious gripers.

 

[Greebo]

<snip>@OwenJones84 @lisybabe also, I know how hard it is to take on board critique when you're getting attacked on all sides by vicious gripers.

At first glance I thought that said "vicious gropers" - really must drag my mind out of the gutter.

 

[butchersapron]

((kismet))

 

[rekil]

Vicious gripers are worse than soi-disant trolls (and hateweasels, was that us?) right?

 

[sihhi]

The term intersectionality has now entered mainstream lesbian and gay charity/lobby group Equality Now (in Scotland)

Who they are:- http://www.equality-network.org/about/history

Their take on it all:

Similarly, a disabled lesbian Muslim will have to deal with ableism, homophobia, Islamophobia, racism and sexism. She might find physical barriers to accessing LGBT venues, but even when she can get into the building she might still face racism and Islamophobia from the white LGBT community.

Often LGBT-focused organisations have little knowledge of, for example, race issues. This can lead to racism attitudes and practices carried by staff and other service users remaining unchecked, thus creating an unsafe space for a minority ethnic LGBT person who wants to access the services.

Our intersectional work is aimed at helping organisations become more inclusive of all their service users and respect every part of their identity. We work with a variety of organisations with diverse expertise, exchange awareness-raising sessions, and speak to intersectional service users. This extensive partnership work reveals that there are many ways to be inclusive without spending any extra money and that learning to be inclusive of people with complex identities benefits every service user.

many ways to be inclusive without spending any extra money - LOL!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

The term intersectionality has now entered mainstream lesbian and gay charity/lobby group Equality Now (in Scotland)

Who they are:- http://www.equality-network.org/about/history

Their take on it al

They're essentially correct though aren't they? Even if intersectionality is a shit word and concept

 

[sihhi]

Vicious gripers are worse than soi-disant trolls (and hateweasels, was that us?) right?

Are you sure you're not one of the "attention-seeking, stalky haterz".

Build a middle-class career out of your personal (overegged, cherrypicked) reactions to other people's confrontations with the police: Revolutionary socialism.

Notice inconsistencies anonymously and legitimately: Attention-seeking.

PS Why does haters have a 'z'? And so - why not griperz?

 

[J Ed]

many ways to be inclusive without spending any extra money - LOL!

I think there's a lot to this, not only is intersectional cheap in terms of money it's also cheap in terms of expending political capital stepping on toes. See, for example, the interest that NUS leaders put in 'liberation' and intersectionality workshops while voting through an austerity agenda and failing to oppose Labour or Conservative neoliberalism.

Intersectionality is great for them. It costs nothing and does nothing to threaten any established interests.

I wonder how long it is until Labour (and then the Tories probably!) adopt intersectionality as policy.

 

[sihhi]

They're essentially correct though aren't they? Even if intersectionality is a shit word and concept

Their content seems to be 'let's not be racist toward minority gay or lesbian people' - you're not gonna find anyone here disagreeing.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Their content seems to be 'let's not be racist toward minority gay or lesbian people' - you're not gonna find anyone here disagreeing.

No their point is that services for LGBT people often do not take into account cultural needs or indeed ethnic diversity stuff and that they should and that they can help with that, which seems cool to me.

 

[sihhi]

the interest that NUS leaders put in 'liberation' and intersectionality workshops while voting through an austerity agenda and failing to oppose Labour or Conservative neoliberalism.

Intersectionality is great for them. It costs nothing and does nothing to threaten any established interests.

It gives a great psychological pay-off for the minority middle-class:
You get to play the advance guard of a worldwide revolution of black female peasants, by "calling out" white people who tattoo native American symbols as cultural appropriator oppressors.

 

[sihhi]

No their point is that services for LGBT people often do not take into account cultural needs or indeed ethnic diversity stuff and that they should and that they can help with that, which seems cool to me.

How can you meet cultural needs without spending money? Isn't it hypocritical (maybe insulting) to think you can.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

How can you meet cultural needs without spending money? Isn't it hypocritical (maybe insulting) to think you can.

it is possible to do stuff in different ways without spending extra money especially awareness raising

 

[Belushi]

June 21st, 2013. Skynet becomes self-aware.

Laurie Penny @PennyRed
@OwenJones84 @lisybabe also, I know how hard it is to take on board critique when you're getting attacked on all sides by vicious gripers.

 

[Belushi]

Pogo Patterson knows how you feel Laurie

 

[rekil]

Never realised he was a ted.

 

[chilango]

Gripper was fash.

He met up with neo-nazis on a school trip to Austria.

...according to the shit Grange Hill book I had when I was a kid anyway...

 

[Belushi]

Ha! I read the same book

Didnt he start a Grange Hill race riot?

 

[chilango]

Can't remember!

I do remember he was trying to buy Nazi memorabilia but ended up iirc with his pants flown on a flagpole...