Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
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stethoscope
Well-Known Member
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the farangist fedora is becoming a weird fashion meme amongst fringe political people
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
i dunno butch, you, me, a nice bottle of cava and a sweat lodge. what could be better?
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
any more for any more?
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
any more for any more?
The worst thing about being an anthropologist is that people think you're into this sort of thing.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
We tend to just drink heavily - though not as much as the older generation. The last guy to share an office with me had an amusing anecdote involving a very drunk Marvin Harris and a hotel laundry basket.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Oddly for such a booklet, sexual coercion isn't really discussed except for one part which starts off with this list:
How can those of us who are unable to "develop full relationships with both men and women" - ie everyone under a capitalism which alienates labour away from human needs - just take this "step".
Also what of the working-class who do "withdraw emotionally"? How can these kind of attitudes 'Stop withdrawing emotionally' assist political struggles.
Demands of men by (superior) feminist men.
1. Request consent from females for every instance of sexualised behaviour. - Fine.
2. Stop withdrawing emotionally. ??!?
sounds ok to me.
All it takes to stop sexism is for men to go through a individual voyage of self-discovery and enlightenment regarding the use of certain words and certain behaviours. Never mind white privilege, what about post-code privilege? What about the all-pervasive and systemic kinds of privilege that are dealt out that can't be personalised in this way, such as oooh Laurie Penny's education and subsequent career? Christ Herbert Spencer, Edmund Burke and the rest of 'em would've loved this lot - being an oppressor is the defect of the individual, and therefore oppression can only be combatted by getting individuals to act in a more virtuous way. With seminars and awareness raising and Bob Geldof and so on. Those who claim that oppression is discrete, depersonalised and, crucially institutionally embedded in the material basis of society, are just trying to excuse their own privilege by resorting to class determinism - ie Thomas Spence, William Godwin, Tom Paine, Robert Owen and the entire democratic socialist canon from that point on - all of them saw appealing to the grace of the individual as an inadaquet way to combat privilege, and believed that individuals are conditioned to behave in certain ways by the institutions they live under, all of which are grafted to a material basis. Challenging that material basis has to be the first step in taking it on. I wonder how many people who advocate intersectionality, or at least a particular version of it, realise they are choosing the side of classical liberalism against socialism in the great ideological battle of the last 250 years?
That doesn't mean that acting in a more considerate way is a bad thing, making concessions, being aware of how you benefit from your skin colour or gender, far from it, only that it's not a tool that can be useful in defeating oppression unless it's tied to those material critiques, rather than some post-freudian hippy vision of personal growth. Some try this, and run into problems trying to hammer the square through the circle hole - see some of the Anarcho's who've so quickly abandoned their own idea's and taken this collection of poorly-understood buzzwords up out of fear they'll be denounced if they don't, others don't have these qualms and make no attempt to try to reconcile the liberalism with their socialist pretensions and basically go full liberalism.
Also - is there scope for comparing the de-class-ing (sorry) of American party politics from the 1920's onwards to the current mess? In particular the way in which party politics was consciously and deliberately racialised to prevent the emergence of mass class-based political parties, as was the case in Europe, and which was mirrored in the USA in the latter part of the 19th century. Not my strongest area tbh this, so any info would be great.
That doesn't mean that acting in a more considerate way is a bad thing, making concessions, being aware of how you benefit from your skin colour or gender, far from it, only that it's not a tool that can be useful in defeating oppression unless it's tied to those material critiques, rather than some post-freudian hippy vision of personal growth. Some try this, and run into problems trying to hammer the square through the circle hole - see some of the Anarcho's who've so quickly abandoned their own idea's and taken this collection of poorly-understood buzzwords up out of fear they'll be denounced if they don't, others don't have these qualms and make no attempt to try to reconcile the liberalism with their socialist pretensions and basically go full liberalism.
Also - is there scope for comparing the de-class-ing (sorry) of American party politics from the 1920's onwards to the current mess? In particular the way in which party politics was consciously and deliberately racialised to prevent the emergence of mass class-based political parties, as was the case in Europe, and which was mirrored in the USA in the latter part of the 19th century. Not my strongest area tbh this, so any info would be great.
This is pretty much my teens in a sentence.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Union/mafia link ups never helped american unionism. In some cases the union bank was being used for low cost (IE never being payed back) loans to mobsters. A shitty thing but you ask yourself what choice did they have when the gov were happy to employ their own gunmen over fucking workplace disputes
The Pale King
Well-Known Member
On the strength of this, she's a much better poet than Laurie Penny. But that's not saying much. I would insert a link to the execrable Saudade here but I just can't face it again. I just can't.
Not so sure about that, isn't it the case that the American labour movement won some of it's most important victories, and experienced some of it's strongest growth, during the periods in the 30's through to the 50's where the mafia were involved? After all, you don't scab if your union is run by the sort of guys who break legs for a living. This is true incidentally of the British labour movement, which actually experienced some of it's most important early growth in the years of the Combination Acts, from iirc 1799 to 1824, when they were essentially outlaw movements that we'd have called gangsters if they were around today. Not only did operating outside the law strengthen an discipline these unions, nothing builds a bit of solidarity between the workers than going out Ludding as Hobsbawn once said, it gave them some real muscle too - they were more than happy to use violence to keep their unions disciplined.
I mean there's a lot of politics going on there, I wouldn't know where to begin with the American stuff to be honest.
rekil
to menny cranks
Check your high alcohol tolerance and rural finland appreciation privilege. (It was better when my mate described it actually)
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
if you get in bed with actual gangsters they will look after the family bank account. Labour movements are just a source to use to rip construction matriel from, subs from and boots on the cobbles. Its not a good mix, because for certain it allows your whole union to be declared illegal and these days fall under RICO purview
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
I just tried to be intimate with old Arthur down at the allotments. There was some unpleasantness that led to the police being called. I am no longer allowed within 100 yards of the allotments, the old folks bungalows or the local primary school.
It's not just the oppressed that get oppressed by oppression - try and be a good ally and you end up on the register
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
my intimacy is when i duck outside for a spliff. Along with sad uncles and fellow fiends. I share my spit
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Bishop Brennan is oppressed and privileged at the same time. He is privileged by class and the fact that as a bishop he has a senior rank to Ted, Dougal and Father Jack. However, he is also oppressed because of the patriarchal expectations of the church expecting him not to have a girlfriend and a son in California. When Father Jack discovers the video of Bishop Brennan, the girlfriend and the son on holiday on the beach and plays it to him he is in fact engaging in a form of "bishop-shaming" which aims to humiliate Bishop Brennan by highlighting the fact that he has gone against the patriarchy of the Vatican by secretly having a child. Dougal also uses ableist behaviour when he hides the rabbits in Bishop Brennan's room, oppressing him because of his phobia of rabbits. When Father Ted kicks Bishop Brennan up the arse far from the working class hero getting on over on "the man" as many so-called leftists would say, he is actually using his priest privilege (of not being a bishop so not having as much to lose) and the privilege of his superior strength to create a huge amount of oppression, which lasts until Bishop Brennan comes out of his coma. As an outsider in the Craggy Island community Bishop Brennan is doubly oppressed, both by Ted and by the fact that as a stranger from the "mainland" he is not familiar with the island ways.
copliker Idris2002
copliker Idris2002
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I'm going to venture a guess that they mean emotional openness rather than a gay gangbang.
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