Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Idris2002]

I think its the extreme end of libertarian thinking- not only are gov rules invalid but basic familial and social assumptions are to be disregarded for the brave new man

Their concept of liberty is essentially "the right of the powerful" - and that's where their ideology overlaps with fascism.

 

[DotCommunist]

Their concept of liberty is essentially "the right of the powerful" - and that's where it overlaps with fascism.

which ties in with the idea that incest is fine for the patriarch as he is righteous in power

 

[Idris2002]

Until Arya Stark stabs him in the neck with a big knife.

 

[frogwoman]

its great how we have finally hit my specialist subject in this thread

this thread is basically a microcosm of urban

 

[sihhi]

Star Trek TNG is an intensely liberal show. This is why they often wring hands over utter barbarism and decide the Prime Directive does not allow intervention.

The borg are not a metaphor for communism. Theres way to much hive fever stuff, enemy within, co-option....well actually maybe they are

What are the Borg then? They were an unusual 'enemy' in sci fi. Usually the communistic societies are goodies.

I believe star trek next generation and maybe the other ones were quite well unionised all studio workers respected the writers' late 1980s WGA picket lines (iirc) even though it was breach of contract.

The intersectional side probably wins this one, a solid class analysis of popular culture eludes us:

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/240030095056699393

I wish serious critics wouldn't treat geeky things, comics etc, as gimmicks they have to condescend to. Not that batman isn't now mainstream

Essentially, FANFIC AND ORGASMS 4 EVAR. (Also, Full Communism.)

 

[DotCommunist]

What are the Borg then? They were an unusual 'enemy' in sci fi. Usually the communistic societies are goodies.

I believe star trek next generation and maybe the other ones were quite well unionised all studio workers respected the writers' late 1980s WGA picket lines (iirc) even though it was breach of contract.

The intersectional side probably wins this one, a solid class analysis of popular culture eludes us:

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/240030095056699393

a swarm society commanded by a central intelligence. Its a metaphor for Stalinism

 

[Idris2002]

this thread is basically a microcosm of urban

If Urban is a pub, this thread is the snug.

(Do you have snugs in Inglisch pubs?)

 

[agricola]

a swarm society commanded by a central intelligence. Its a metaphor for Stalinism

I disagree - I have watched every Borg episode ever filmed, and not once have I seen a drone with an ice-axe.

 

[Idris2002]

Surely the Borg are meant to be rubber/PVC fetishists?

All sorts of alternative lifestyles here on Craggy Island.

 

[J Ed]

Its theme might be libertarian (though you could just as easily say its anarchist), but I fail to see how Firefly could ever be said to have a right-wing theme to it.

Really? That was my instinctive (partly guilty) reaction to watching it and enjoying it, and I know others who have felt the same!

I suppose that my thinking is that the Alliance is obviously supposed to be analogous to the union in the US Civil War, and the Alliance is portrayed as corrupt and tyrannical in Firefly although since the rebels in the TV programme are multi-ethnic we can probably assume that in Firefly the Civil War wasn't racially charged, although that in itself could be considered a nod to apologists for the Confederacy!

Thinking about it now though, Firefly is a lot better about class (it acknowledges that it exists for a start and is a driving factor in a lot of the plotlines) than most TV programmes.

 

[Idris2002]

Thinking about it now though, Firefly is a lot better about class (it acknowledges that it exists for a start and is a driving factor in a lot of the plotlines) than most TV programmes.

Let us not forget the tragic fate of Mycah the butcher's boy.

 

[DotCommunist]

I disagree - I have watched every Borg episode ever filmed, and not once have I seen a drone with an ice-axe.

Mercer was a sleeper, borg nanites within him but otherwise passing. Think a deconditioned Locutus

 

[frogwoman]

velvet acid christ, the anarchist (but slightly pro AR) industrial band, did a great sampling of the borg on an anti-fascist song they did

 

[Idris2002]

Charlie Stross' working title for Iron Sunrise was "Space Nazis Must Die".

 

[frogwoman]

seriously do a search for "futile" by VAC, you'll see what I mean, it's amazing

 

[sihhi]

a swarm society commanded by a central intelligence. Its a metaphor for Stalinism

Isn't this 'Stalinism' the standard version of all communistic efforts, especially in the US, after the Truman purges onward?

 

[el-ahrairah]

its great how we have finally hit my specialist subject in this thread

apologism for racism in science-fiction and fantasy novels?

 

[DotCommunist]

Isn't this 'Stalinism' the standard version of all communistic efforts, especially in the US, after the Truman purges onward?

seen through the lense of US liberalism yes. Picard, in stark contrast to his predecessor was an erudite thinker and peace-in-our-time man. But then obliterated resistance despite all the fine words. Because he spent time after every episode updating 'Captains log' in a finishing monolouge filled with platitudes we are supposed to assume the gross imperialism and attempts at hegemony by the Federation and its flag/gunship Enterprise is somehow softer. more just. Clinton.

 

[DotCommunist]

apologism for racism in science-fiction and fantasy novels?

 

[sihhi]

seen through the lense of US liberalism yes. Picard, in stark contrast to his predecessor was an erudite thinker and peace-in-our-time man. But then obliterated resistance despite all the fine words. Because he spent time after every episode updating 'Captains log' in a finishing monolouge filled with platitudes we are supposed to assume the gross imperialism and attempts at hegemony by the Federation and its flag/gunship Enterprise is somehow softer. more just. Clinton.

I get what you're saying the Federation always does good things. But Star Trek Next Generation began in the era of Reagan and ended with the final shot of Picard playing poker with his officers about fourteen months into Clinton's first term. Most of it was under George Bush that writers were writing before Clinton was even a major figure, he was very much a suprise victor in the primaries AFAIR.

 

[phildwyer]

If Urban is a pub, this thread is the snug.

The snug's toılet.

 

[DotCommunist]

I get what you're saying the Federation always does good things. But Star Trek Next Generation began in the era of Reagan and ended with the final shot of Picard playing poker with his officers about fourteen months into Clinton's first term. Most of it was under George Bush that writers were writing before Clinton was even a major figure, he was very much a suprise victor in the primaries AFAIR.

This does not mean the writers were reaganites. Quite the opposite.

Look at the ferengi. Go have a look. Tell me what you think and where they fit in it all.

 

[Idris2002]

This does not mean the writers were reaganites. Quite the opposite.

Look at the ferengi. Go have a look. Tell me what you think and where they fit in it all.

Non-human monsters with big noses, who are obsessed with money. Whatever could this mean?

 

[sihhi]

This does not mean the writers were reaganites. Quite the opposite.

Look at the ferengi. Go have a look. Tell me what you think and where they fit in it all.

Yes they are liberals - angry at what Reagan and Bush had done.
The ferengi are hideous free-marketeers, right?
Star Trek is critical of the excesses of capitalist society - it has unionised writers after all.
Deep space nine I think had a double episode called past tense about earth in 2200 or whenever with job centres being fortified and untreated mental health problems and hungry elderly people and slum areas being zoned off to prevent crime and so troublemakers couldn't just pickpocket willynilly in middle-class areas.
Then this entirely non-violent hero called James Bell rescues some policemen in the midst of a mass free-for-all uprising where others are killed. This makes the middle-class people realise the poor are humans too and they share all their stuff freely and humankind makes the Federation happen. I can't remember it but it's fantastically inept but also a liberal warning of the future - some of the poor are going to hurt you and yours unless 'we' sort 'it' out.

 

[el-ahrairah]

The snug's toılet.

a broken condom machine in the snug's toilet.

 

[DotCommunist]

and there you have post TOS Star Trek. They are vile liberals- every other week the Enterprise is diverted into a humanitarian mission that establishes these credentials. However 'While en route to the Vega system with vital medical supplies we have been alerted by an ongoing crises in the shakinny-arkanz binary system. We are on course at warp factor five to deliver those cunts some justice'

DS9 is a different case, and came later. It's holding a DMZ. Has teeth, even a secret warship (Defiant) with naughty tech that is against existing treaties about cloaking devices.

 

[el-ahrairah]

STOP TALKING ABOUT STAR TREK

 

[Idris2002]

 

[DotCommunist]

STOP TALKING ABOUT STAR TREK

science fiction is a window into the soul of what a society wishes it could be

 

[Idris2002]

Fucking hell, what does that say about the Draka?

(not that I've read the Draka series)