Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
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Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Special pleading again. Tolkein's views on class (and please never say "classism" again in my presence) were not simply typical of his time. He was a reactionary.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
We need a safe space where the sci fi fans can't use their geek privilege to silence and oppress us
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
I have two options:
1.
or
2.
Pick and chose - if you have a feisty following 2 - otherwise 1.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
no I asked you- but the 'swarthy' look of cross bred orcs and men is a good one.
on a nice mix is how the orcs are similarly industrial and also swarthy and squat, and rough of speech
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
as I have already stated way up thread- shadow boxing?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Please tell me that they're both real . I'd love to see #1 though. And people did argue that - they argued the pogues couldn't do their stuff as well. Same people probably.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Then again, loads of Irish people think the Waterboys are an Irish group. . .
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's what they sound like what i think they should sound like! Big howling moon pre-packed romanticism and the great free life with a hat on.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
A couple of your posts have followed the same pattern: Acknowledge the existence of, ahem, "problematic" views on race, class and gender in Tolkein... and then play down its significance. So pointing out the issues of race and gender is "banal", while his views on class become typical of the period. This is a fairly typical sort of response by fans who aren't stupid enough to try to simply deny the existence of those issues in the first place but who don't want to let those problems get in their way.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
I'm not going to link to it because the person is a young adult female (I lost the link anyway) but this tumblr poster had a go at someone (who works in a tattoo parlour and posts up his work as examples) for tattooing native American symbols onto (white) people's skins.
Also white people with dreaded or platted hair have been attacked for cultural appropriation.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Having a go at white people for having dreadlocks is perfectly fine with me, although the main line of attack should be about hippies and scabies not cultural appropriation.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Do you renounce his works! Do you renounce them!
they are typical of the period though, and the writerly milue (one day I'll work out how to spell that word).
the reason its 'banal' is because its something that cn be levelled at the entirety more or less of the post tolkien fantasy genre.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
so we see how you disdain the dunlanders
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
Are you sure you didn't watch by accident with a mate of hers?
Why would someone tell you something you aren't watching was sexist?
Me: "Shall we watch this?" *indicates Scott Pilgrim DVD*
Her: "It's massively sexist because.... [20 minutes pass]... and that is why that film is massively sexist"
Me: "Shall we watch Predator again then?"
Her: "GET TO THA CHOPPA!!!"
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
I was about to say that if people wanted to wear flatcaps and keep whippets as pets I don't have a problem with this cultural appropriation. But then I got an image of flatcap wearing hipsters and concluded I'd be opening the door to all manner of evils so I decided against it.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Aloof unavailable elf queen.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
That "more or less" the entire post-Tolkein fantasy genre has reactionary politics isn't "banal". It's about the only thing about the genre interesting enough to bother talking about.
Tolkein's views were not typical of writers in his period. They were typical of people in his young fogey Christian academic milieu.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Thats so much privilege she would have to spend most of her time in the Undying Lands checking it all.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Didn't they move to Galway? I'm sure they fit in just fine with all the other Celto-Poetic demi-crusties in that God forsaken hovel.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
If you read the brilliant 'Last Ringbearer' (translated from russian) the elf queen refuses to fuck Aarogorn because as a 1000 year old being she regards sleeping with a human as akin to bestiality and peadophilia
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Better the godforsaken hovel that is Galway than the filthy open sewer that is Dublin (a stinking shitpit that is unfit to be capital of any republic).
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
i wear flatcaps and keep whippets. i've been wearing flatcaps and keeping whippets since i was a boy. AND I'M A SOUTHERN NANCY AND SPINEY APPROVES.
take that hipsters.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
It's all out in the open now - preference for films of comic books about geeks
i still haven't seen it, mind. two christmasses ago i got it, still in the wrap. ONE DAY I WILL WATCH THE DAMN MOVIE AND MAKE UP MY OWN MIND, I PROMISE YOU.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I'm not running some vendetta against escapist nonsense. But I do think that the kind of places people like to escape to are interesting.
I also think that the contrast between the relatively varied politics of SF and the almost always reactionary politics of (post-Tolkein) fantasy is interesting. I say almost always because, of course, the genre assumptions have always produced hostile reactions from some writers.
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