Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[treelover]

Not really anything new though, is it? Orwell's The Road to Wigan Pier is full of the same, and worse, attitudes.

to a degree, different time and sensibility, and he did write disparagingly about the 'sandal wearers' etc...

 

[love detective]

the tendency to produce a cigarette, light it dramatically and say something they think is deep

Laura's blog & twitter profile pic until recently

 

[Delroy Booth]

I wonder how much easier it'd be to work out how real some of these stories Laurie Penny has included in her writing if there were people in New York present who knew the politics and the area in depth. I bet there's loads of subtle giveaways we're missing. Handy being sent abroad then reporting back to a British audience.

I was arguing with John Rees on twitter frogwoman have a look at these little encounters. I know I'm a world class idiot on twitter but is this an example of what you're on about? I was giving him a hard time over Stop the War and everything else and this https://twitter.com/JohnWRees/status/319457181500055552 ? was his reply. https://twitter.com/JohnWRees/status/319459811878137858 this too after I called him a professional trot.

I suppose the thing I've learned is that it takes a certain amount of income and economic independence to be an "activist" anyway - you just can't do this occupying uni buildings indefinitely malarky if you're immobile, skint, on workfare, all the rest of it, no matter how worthy the cause. So I think it becomes a sort of scene which draws on people who are lucky enough to have that middle-class support net, people who implicitly know that they can make certain choices like going down to St Pauls with a tent and occupying, because certain consequences aren't going to happen to them. It's not even their fault, it's just the way they are. It disproportionately draws in people who've been born and bred never knowing anything but financial security, and like anyone reacting to their environment they behave differently because of it, even if they consciously aware of their own privilige.

Now I know it's not always like that, and I know a lot of activisty type people who do this stuff sacrifice a lot to go and occupy something, I know not everyone in that millbank re-union mileu is middle-class, this is just a tendency I've observed over time.

 

[J Ed]

I just think it's interesting how often it is that the same activists, like Rees and Penny, seem to head similar sorts of groups and movements over and over. The sort of people with the talent and resources to wreck, but not enough to create something useful.

If they didn't exist, the state would have to invent them...

 

[butchersapron]

Now I know it's not always like that, and I know a lot of activisty type people who do this stuff sacrifice a lot to go and occupy something, I know not everyone in that millbank re-union mileu is middle-class, this is just a tendency I've observed over time.

The sacrifice is part of the problem.

 

[rekil]

The somewhat overwhelmed PD games division should do a Commentariat game. Use your social capital wisely, latch onto popular campaigns, up your ppw and bag as many media gigs as fast as possible.

'Goodness gracious, I've inherited £X. Now I can fund a yearlong Guardian and/or Labour internship.'
'Epic fail - caught making up quotes - I miss 3 turns and pay £X for journalism course in america or somewhere.'

Well that's me out of ideas.

 

[sihhi]

The sacrifice is part of the problem.

Who is sacrificing what?
A middle-class figure like LP from Lewes, family of dual parent high income lawyers who sent all 3 children to private school sacrificing a spell in prison is easier than other people.

 

[butchersapron]

Who is sacrificing what?
A middle-class figure like LP from Lewes, family of dual parent high income lawyers who sent all 3 children to private school sacrificing a spell in prison is easier than other people.

The mental conception on the part of activists that the activists are sacrificing themselves for others leads to horrible problems in how they relate to non-activists and odd ideas about what constitutes political activity.

 

[love detective]

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed

5h​

I am reading, because right now it feels needful, Rebecca Solnit's 'Hope In The Dark', telling activists: "it's always too soon to go home."

"That's it. Sorry, guys, but I'm not going back out there today. Really don't want to be arrested and deported just for journalism"

 

[equationgirl]

The somewhat overwhelmed PD games division should do a Commentariat game. Use your social capital wisely, latch onto popular campaigns, up your ppw and bag as many media gigs as fast as possible.

'Goodness gracious, I've inherited £X. Now I can fund a yearlong Guardian and/or Labour internship.'
'Epic fail - caught making up quotes - I miss 3 turns and pay £X for journalism course in america or somewhere.'

Well that's me out of ideas.

Like Monopoly but with different publications making up the spaces on the board - call it Commentopoly (because they want to own all the media comments).

 

[cesare]

The mental conception on the part of activists that the activists are sacrificing themselves for others leads to horrible problems in how they relate to non-activists and odd ideas about what constitutes political activity.

Martyrdom for gratitude. Redemption shit.

 

[rekil]

Like Monopoly but with different publications making up the spaces on the board - call it Commentopoly (because they want to own all the media comments).

Should be a bit more varied than another Monopoly clone I think, with room for choices about how you use your social capital and that. Commentopoly is good though.

 

[tufty79]

I just think it's interesting how often it is that the same activists, like Rees and Penny, seem to head similar sorts of groups and movements over and over. The sort of people with the talent and resources to wreck, but not enough to create something useful.

If they didn't exist, the state would have to invent them...

look at climate camp, no dash for gas and dale farm activists. sorry, i mean a specific activist heavily and visibly involved in all three campaigns.
ndfg are currently trying to drum up support for dale farm under their 'climate change campaigning' hat.

the same person (edit: i am referring to a specific individual, who yes, i do have extreme issues with these days) ends up on the front page of the guardian being arrested for those three campaigns time after time after time. they keep a scrapbook of their press clippings, for specific 'look at how awesome i am' moments with visitors, and use their position to get extra financial help from politically sympathetic individuals.. i am not naming them, so fuck confidentiality (and that has been their attitude towards me so far, so..)
they are risking, in terms of their 'action' actions, fuck all other than being bored in a cell (or their abseiling ropes failing. which, fair enough, does take balls) - their job within their workers co-op is secure, they've mates that will pay their rent if they get sent to prison, and their tenancy has been secure for years.
in terms of their personal actions, they assume that everyone around them will be sympathetic with what they do/have done. and it's turning out to be the case. even when they've done the indefensible.

/rant. i'm stepping away from the thread now for my own mental wellbeing, and that of everyone else *insert sheepish emoticon*
i apparently have a 'laurie penny' trigger warning and 'activist wankers' trigger warning to remind myself of

 

[sihhi]

The mental conception on the part of activists that the activists are sacrificing themselves for others lead to horrible problems in how they relate to non-activists and odd ideas about what constitutes political activity.

I agree, I think it's worth stopping this stuff in its blocks: in what sense are 99% of activists sacrificing anything at all?
The basic problem is their feeling that the orders below need to be tutored before society can be turned over.

 

[equationgirl]

'It feels needful'? Dreadful archaic sentence designed to make her seem extra smart.

 

[rekil]

She should call Kenan Malik a great big racist.

http://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/multiculturalism-and-its-discontents/

 

[sihhi]

look at climate camp, no dash for gas and dale farm activists.
ndfg are currently trying to drum up support for dale farm under their 'climate change campaigning' hat.

the same person ends up on the front page of the guardian being arrested time after time after time.
they are risking fuck all other than being bored in a cell - their job within their workers co-op is secure, they've mates that will pay their rent if they get sent to prison, and their tenancy has been secure for years.

It's not always the same person, but yes a minority do have whole spare houses, in the case of some of the Climate Camp group!

 

[tufty79]

.

 

[ymu]

The somewhat overwhelmed PD games division should do a Commentariat game. Use your social capital wisely, latch onto popular campaigns, up your ppw and bag as many media gigs as fast as possible.

'Goodness gracious, I've inherited £X. Now I can fund a yearlong Guardian and/or Labour internship.'
'Epic fail - caught making up quotes - I miss 3 turns and pay £X for journalism course in america or somewhere.'

Well that's me out of ideas.

Someone did this for medicine. Get Peered! I'll see if I can find it to provide a handy template to plagiarise inspire you.

 

[ViolentPanda]

...and fantastically, spectacularly we find laurie recommending:

Oh, for crying out bloody loud!

 

[ViolentPanda]

"First they came for the students"

Pastor Neimoeller is gnashing his ghostly teeth at her appropriation of his creation.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Finishes the article by congratulating herself. Fucking hell.

Activist journos always use self-reacharound conclusions, dontcher know?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've been trying for a long time to put my finger on whats wrong with a lot of quite well meaning activist types and why I find them quite annoying sometimes, now i think i have found it. It's the entire way they talk about and relate to people like they are some sort of endangered species rather than actually asking them what they want and treating them like they are people with opinions - and most of all like they are nothing to do with THEM but like something separate.

They're very similar to vanguardists in that respect.
"Come along, peasants. Follow our leadership and all shall be well, but don't expect to dine at the same table!".

 

[ymu]

The somewhat overwhelmed PD games division should do a Commentariat game. Use your social capital wisely, latch onto popular campaigns, up your ppw and bag as many media gigs as fast as possible.

'Goodness gracious, I've inherited £X. Now I can fund a yearlong Guardian and/or Labour internship.'
'Epic fail - caught making up quotes - I miss 3 turns and pay £X for journalism course in america or somewhere.'

Well that's me out of ideas.

Inspiration. (Link is to one of the authors' website, so you can ask permission if inspiration becomes plagiarism.)

 

[tenniselbow]

Oh, for crying out bloody loud!

"This reading list may not make you happy, but it might just make you brave."

 

[Bakunin]

Pastor Neimoeller is gnashing his ghostly teeth at her appropriation of his creation.

She'll probably paraphrase the end as well.

'Then they came for me and there was nobody left to speak out for me (apart from a motley selection of rent-a-quote wiberal hacks charging exhorbitantly by the word, while claiming all this nastiness happened to them personally, of course).'

 

[ViolentPanda]

If I was the state, that's exactly the sort of stuff I'd want the likes of Laurie to be putting out.

If you were the state, you'd be a bit easier to smash than the one Laura shills for.

 

[ViolentPanda]

"This reading list may not make you happy, but it might just make you brave."

I remember the first time I perused that "reading" list, which had films and songs on it too. I e-mailed her courtesy of the NS, asking if she meant I was supposed to read the film scripts and lyric sheets, but she never replied.

Last time I read Debord, mind you ('90s), it just made me sleepy. I can read Bourdieu or Foucault with nary a yawn, but not Guy!

 

[frogwoman]

The mental conception on the part of activists that the activists are sacrificing themselves for others leads to horrible problems in how they relate to non-activists and odd ideas about what constitutes political activity.

like a sort of jesus complex?

 

[butchersapron]

like a sort of jesus complex?

Not really, more the idea that we do politics for them - it's our role. The other side of the role is that they leave us to it. Politics is what we do.