butchersapron
Bring back hanging
And it had someone in it called Noni Hazlehurst.
Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
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Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Where Temeura Morison got his big break, I think. When I was in Aotearoa there was a lot of fanfare about him rejoining the Shortland cast.
love detective
there's no love too small
I think when they talk about tea they actually mean cups of tea, not having your tea
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
I only remember the home front bits
It's things like that which would prevent me from ever getting a job in the media I suspect.
TRIGGER WARNING FOR OUTRAGEOUS SELF-DEPRICATING ABLEISM
one day? I'm nuttier than squirrel shit from it already.
one day? I'm nuttier than squirrel shit from it already.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
To be honest following exchanges like this one would make anyone crazy:
Owen Jones: SWP rape crisis tells us about SWP leadership and little else, despite Nick Cohen's attempt to drag wider left into it http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/03/far-left-no-place-feminists-rape
Laurie Penny: no, actually, I don't think that's right at all. The left has an enormous unacknowleged problem with sexism and sexual violence
Shedden: Worse that the right's? Or is it just no better than the rest of society (when one would hope it was)?
Owen Jones: After all the left includes women who have dedicated their whole lives to fighting for women's liberation
Laurie Penny: of course it does - and those women frequently face abuse and marginalisation from notional comrades
Owen Jones: But surely not abuse from most - and certainly not treated on the whole anything like the SWP in this outrageous instance
Laurie Penny: I have seen and experienced sexism within almost every left org I've been part of.
Owen Jones: To be honest I was just arguing sexism is rampant in a sexist society and the left is not unique or specific SWP crisis applicable
Laurie Penny: I think the left really is a specific case. I've seen and experienced it myself.
Owen Jones: Do you mean the left is itself uniquely sexist, and more so than society as a whole?
David 'shell-suited hippos' Aaronovitch: A little intrusion. The left was as uninterested in sexism as the right till the 70s. Some Leninists never caught up.
Owen Jones: My mum was on the left from 60s onwards and wholly interested in sexism for a start
Laurie Penny: women have always fought sexism on the left. That doesn't mean there's not a big problem. Jeez.
Owen Jones: But I'm not arguing otherwise. I was saying it's rampant on the left because it's rampant in society
Laurie Penny: but as others have said, that's the argument that's always used to dismiss sexism on the left.
Dr_Tad: Here in Australia there is sexism on the Left (reformist & radical) but considerably less than in general society.
[Diversion into discussion about Australia]
Karen Pickering: I wish left critiques of the market had more traction (I believe them!) but not at the expense of women.
Owen Jones : Women are central to those critiques. In lowest paid work, most likely to be hit by austerity etc
Owen Jones: Agree sexism had to be ceaselessly fought on left. Women central to many modern left critiques though
Laurie Penny: 'women central to many modern left critiques.' Please, please think about what you just said. Many?
Owen Jones : In that not enough modern left critiques say anything about women's rights?
Laurie Penny : *sigh* we'll chat about this. I'm about to fly. Disappointing.
Owen Jones : Why is that disappointing? Women are still airbrushed out of existence in some left stuff. That's my point
Owen Jones : But I've said repeatedly in this conversation that sexism is endemic on the left and has to be fought
Laurie Penny: it's not just about representation, though, is it.
Owen Jones: I was responding to Karen's specific point about women being missing from left critiques of the market
Owen Jones: No, which is why I've said endemic left sexism has to be fought. I was responding to Karen's point
Nick 'Iraqi women are my comrades' Cohen (that was an actual line he used, according to a reliable source, in an AWL discussion about the Iraq war)
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How can you have any sort of meaningful or substantive discussion in single line back like that? It's like watching 70s computer ping pong.
And what orgs has penny been in?
And what orgs has penny been in?
Christ. I was just watching that.
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Christ. I was just watching that.
Not that you weren't already, but you just got a bit cooler in my eyes.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
maid marion and her merry men?
with nick cohen doing tony robinsons role
with nick cohen doing tony robinsons role
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/north-gutted-press-look-away
Newcastle is to cut 100% of its art funding, but the southern-dominated media can't report it.
As the North is gutted, the press look away
Newcastle is to cut 100% of its art funding, but the southern-dominated media can't report it.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
I tried to make it as clear as possible, mate. C+Ped then did search+delete for all the @ signs.
I agree, if the left is genuinely more sexist than society in general, then it would make sense to publicise any and all forms of sexism and outright sex-based harassment as far as possible so that it can be reduced. Unless that is you don't really want open active leftism to expand but want people to simply consider themselves 'left but not too left' (ie read columns in the Independent).
I'm interested in what left groups she's been involved in too.
More generally, there is a desire to make the movement perfect, completely "representative of society" in every aspect of its representation except its class aspect. Private schoolers can climb to the summit as the mouthpiece of "women", former parliamentary researchers can be the leaders in organising the pseudo-coalescence of the left, some squatters can come from families with several properties, some environmental direct action leaders can be sons and daughters of aristocrats... none of this raises much concern.
More generally, capitalism means that no movement will be purely proportioned to include representative ratios of minorities. It's chasing a mirage to try and make it perfectly proportional simply by "addressing issues" via a hashed up form of media privilege politics.
Also we're not told what it is about other than representation, which is part of it. Am I exaggerating to say the extent of the criticism is that a "progressive stack" should be used in meetings and in general 'there should be more women in the left' (a circular assertion).
Though I don't like him, OJ is correct to say 'women central to many modern left critiques' but not all, as in women are in all left critiques but sometimes just as a "working class" (that includes him, her them and those over there of both genders) other (many) times as explicitly gender-differentiated analyses. Sometimes the first category can airbrush working-class women but not necessarily, sometimes an airbrush is needed if the picture you are painting is about something else.
If you are discussing the marketisation of water and utilities in 1990s and its effects today in a short article for anti-cuts activists, you won't necessarily talk about women and men, you might seek to airbrush the gender issue for that article, just as you might airbrush the immigrant issue etc etc.
Obviously women should be employed in the power generation industry, obviously the costs should be borne by those who have reaped the rewards of the Major and Blair era, but it's not immediately relevant to something about the rising cost of bills, so it can be legitimately airbrushed.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
It's the slug so I don't know why I'm bothering but this is just absolute rubbish isn't it, I mean even the briefest of glances at the history of the left show's it to be total tripe.
It was the lead story on the Guardian website a couple of days ago.
not-bono-ever
meh
Dear Penny
Sometimes when the left ( whatever that is ), gives you short shrift, it may not always be sexist, it may just be that they dont like what you do.
Sometimes when the left ( whatever that is ), gives you short shrift, it may not always be sexist, it may just be that they dont like what you do.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Is it Ivan Lendl? Do I win a prize?
Over a quarter of a million page impressions for this thread.
Letting Firky back in is already paying off
editor
hiraethified
Why are you talking to yourself?
editor
hiraethified
That's because you're coming over like a needy nutter.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
It looks like you are talking to yourself, editor. Have you removed Camilla's posts? What did they say?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well, it wasn't LLETSA's most glorious return that's for sure - really let himself go recently.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
With the ill behaviour
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
I feel a thread coming on: "Communist slogans hidden in banal pop music"
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