Such delicate flowers would certainly be shocked by some of the things said by people I've worked alongside.
Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
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el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
Did I say you were?
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
There's a general tone developing.
What tone is that?
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Not from you specifically. Not even just on this thread. That if you want to mix it with the big boys there's a level of shit you'll just have to put up with.
Nowhere have I said that. But I do think that Delroy has a point. There are some people who have lived quite sheltered lives and their level of shock seems to reveal their naivety about what actually goes on in the world, the views people hold, and the openness and ways in which they express them. Ever worked with a vile racist who knows you've got an Asian girlfriend? There's banter and then there's something else. It's not to be accepting of it (although sadly at times you have to when knowing to pick your battles as an individual), but to be grimly aware of it, square in the face, some people more than others, day to day. There are indeed some delicate little flowers out there. And a lot of these other people haven't been 'big boys' in my experience, but sad, relatively powerless (in the grand scheme of things) men.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Ach... I can't quite articulate this properly. 'big boys' was metaphorical there really. It's hard to talk about this kind of thing without coming across as ' wah wah you should be making allowances for me so I can join in' which is I think what people think LP is doing.
i really hope that's not the impression i'm giving, more that if you say things in public that are politically controversial you will cop a lot of shit and i'm not really sure how that can be legislated against, or if it should be
and that shit will be flavoured with the prejudices of your opponents, whether thats racism, misogyny, homophobia etc, look at the class based shit the EDL gets from people like Laurie's mates
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Ok that's fair enough, I understand what you mean better now.
i find it difficult because i think both the two extremes of the argument - that women are delicate little flowers and should be treated differently in political discourse, or that women should just accept whatever misogynist crap that's thrown at them if they want do politics - are both bullshit
When I said delicate little flowers I was talking about both men and women.
"Why can't we have a nice revolution?"
I understand what weepier is saying and I understand what you are saying. That's not to say it is right but it is certainly to be expected - unless you have been brought up, wrapped in cotton wool and then it probably is all the more harrowing when you do come across it. Is it desensitisation or acceptance...?
To be honest I don't know how some people watch the news at night without falling to pieces.
Typing in bath, sorry for typos - wet hands
Typing in bath, sorry for typos - wet hands
Fuckin' hell! Why would you want to be on the internet when you're in the bath!
I'll never understand smartphones, having it on you all the time, the temptation to reply to something on the internet when you should be having a break. My mam's a teacher and she was telling me when you confiscate a kid's smartphone off them, you can visibly see them start to fidgit and panic and get neurotic if they're parted from their phones for more than 5 minutes. There's something worrying about that, although I can't put my finger on it.
When I last had my own place I didn't even have a telly in my room let alone something that you can get the internet on. It doesn't help me sleep when I'm surrounded by bright dazzling contraptions A few books and that's it, that room was for sleeping and shagging in, not for entertainment.
Ha! 
From time to time I get really bad muscular pain in my abdomen, couple of codeine and a long soak in a hot both usually sorts it out. There's only so long I can stare at the grout before I get bored so take my Nexus in with me. I don't really 'do' phones (why am I telling you this!?).
Read that back to yourself
From upper middle class Laurie Penny's bed linen to the habits of Delroy in his PFWC bedroom. Butches will rage!
My bedroom is strictly for bedroom activities but the most excitement it has seen in the last year is what happens in the books I am reading. Like many things in my bedroom it is largely fictional.
E2A:
Damnit, sparky!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Read that back to yourself
There's an "are you not entertained, is this not why you are here" gladiator meme in that somewhere I'm sure of it.
I think the technical term for that is "result"
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Laurie Penny is being criticised for using the word lunatic in her NS column - http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2013/01/this_minimally
She's going crazy all over twitter about having said it
She's going crazy all over twitter about having said it
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Wait till this current furore dies down, then pile in with the criticisms of her ageist languageLaurie Penny is being criticised for using the word lunatic in her NS column - http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2013/01/this_minimally
She's going crazy all over twitter about having said it
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Laurie Penny is being criticised for using the word lunatic in her NS column - http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2013/01/this_minimally
She's going crazy all over twitter about having said it
In fairness, it's nice to see that there are the glimmerings of the idea that mental health (or problems therewith) isn't, or shouldn't be, a stick for beating people with.
Aye.
Her responses will be along the lines of, "I was incarcerated in a psychiatric hospital as a child, I, more than anyone am aware of the power of this word. Blah to fucking blah." Which well maybe but you don't see people who were once confined in a wheelchair throwing the word cripple around. It isn't the first time she's shown no thought for people with mental health problems so this comes as no surprise. Also the people who pull her up will be trolls and blocked where as those who support / accept and support her apology will be retweeted. It is so fucking VOMIT!
(Well aware that I use words like 'nutter' but I am not the one writing articles in the NS).
*insert ad hominem attack*
This reminds me. I was called an invalid the other day. Another word you may like to add to your repertoire, lauriepenny
Can't get twitter on my internet, have to use my phone - think they have properly blocked my IP address.
(Well aware that I use words like 'nutter' but I am not the one writing articles in the NS).
*insert ad hominem attack*
This reminds me. I was called an invalid the other day. Another word you may like to add to your repertoire, lauriepenny
Can't get twitter on my internet, have to use my phone - think they have properly blocked my IP address.
Getting individuals to moderate their speech and so on has it's merits, but i don't see it as a basis on which to attack systematic and institutional exploitation, sexism, racism and so on. Political correctness has not stopped racism. It's astonishing the extent to which people can only think in purely individualist ways, as if by making subtle changes to the way they act as individuals they can actually challenge things that exist on a institutional basis, like checking priviliges, raising awareness is something that will affect change in and of itself. It reminds me of the way in which Live 8 assuaged the individual guilt of all those conscience stricken middle-class liberals, who's 1st world lifestyle indirectly depends upon global inequailty and exploitation, and channelled any sort of nascent political activity that might have given rise to into some sterile narcissistic festival. Then they all go home, pat themselves on the back and say "we helped make poverty history by, er, just being there, and erm, having our awareness raised" as if some huge narcissistic corporate sponsored rock concert where everyone has a great time is in any way capable of making poverty history. You want to make poverty history? Then it will take long, protracted, boring, selfless struggle, which will be resisted violently by those in power. It would take a revolution to make poverty history, and despite what Laurie Penny says revolutions aren't nice things, look at Syria. That's what revolutions look like - ugly, violent, chaotic, no clear-cut good guys and bad guys. Even if you wanted to do something less than that, say a campaign aimed at taming global capitalism, you'll be able to tell how effective it is by how much shit you get from the established media - conversely the extent to which they're willing to indulge you should be a good barometer of how ineffective and harmless what you're doing ultimately is.
Let's take a detour. Last night, because I couldn't sleep (incidentally a vestige of some mental health problems of my own, caused by over-zealous consumption of stimulant drugs during puberty) I came accross two pictures on flickr by joanamary who, as we can see, is one of those criticising Laurie Penny for use of "ableism" in her article. The pictures were of two of her mates, posing with their tongues pressed into the underside of their lips as if to signify "retard" and the title was "more retards" or something along those lines. Then there was another one, which is perhaps even more revealing, which was a picture she'd taken an advert for some white Reebok classics which contained a minor punctuation error, which was entitled "by chavs for chavs" and had a little whinge about how stupid advertising people were. I can't link you the photo's coz she's gone and deleted them now.
I checked her profile and there she was, giving the it the big 'un about how using "able-ism" is wrong and linking an article around explaining why it's wrong around. so I linked the photo's back to her and a few other randoms on her timeline, and asked "I'm more interested in the origins of these pics" just to see what she had to say. I wasn't even rude or confrontational or anything, I felt it's only fair to give someone the chance to explain themselves before piling in there. But I thought the replies were quite revealing:
Now at this point, even though I'm willing to accept that she's changed her views and don't wanna push it, the word "classism" gets my back up so I replied with
Kid gloves, as you can see. Not trying to be an arsehole. Trying to show the inherent weaknesses in that perspective of looking at the world. It continues, with @akvltghost (he of "Var of Piss" fame) adding a few things to stick up for her.
I don't even feel like giving her too much of a hard time for this, she's clearly embarassed about what she's written in the past, and god knows I've probably written stupid and witless things too at one point or another, as have we all at some point. But the emphasis on the individual, the way in which it's helped her personally grow, how her individual words are "a drop in the ocean of Kyriachy" and by extension removing them a minor victory against the Kyriachy, it boggles my mind. This notion of moderating your language, rather than it being a basic common courtesy and something you do to prevent people becoming alienated by those who are inconsiderate and who don't think before opening their mouths, but a form of political action in itself. Are people of my generational psychologically incapable of thinking of the world in terms of collective action or something? I mean whatever happened to old fashioned socialist concepts of solidarity and fellowship, that went beyond (or at least tried to, not always very well) individualism and united people from all kinds of backgrounds in a common cause that went beyond their individualism? Did all that die in the 80's, and am i some atavistic relic for being reluctant to throw myself in with this lot? Who was it who said "There's no such thing as society, just individuals and their identities" it's on here, but it's very prescient. This is the excrement produced when radicalism is eaten and digested by a generation of hegemonic neo-liberalism. That's Laurie Penny. They'll eat her alive anyway, they'd all kill for a job at the New Statesman, middle-class envy and jealousy is a big thing. They all want that life.
Incidentally I notice that Jo's into Black Metal and can I just say from personal experience there is no form of music, or sub-culture, that's more homogenus, middle class and white than Black Metal. I can remember when there was a black metal band in Manchester who were courting the far-right blood and honour crowd - British Freedom Fighters (Wigan Mike's lot, remember them) used to turn up to their gigs and stuff at fairly high profile venues in Manchester. And the overwhelming reaction was one of staring and their shoes and hoping it'd go away, or total indifference, or amongst a few open support and pleasure that they were there. They couldn't give a fuck.
I checked her profile and there she was, giving the it the big 'un about how using "able-ism" is wrong and linking an article around explaining why it's wrong around. so I linked the photo's back to her and a few other randoms on her timeline, and asked "I'm more interested in the origins of these pics" just to see what she had to say. I wasn't even rude or confrontational or anything, I felt it's only fair to give someone the chance to explain themselves before piling in there. But I thought the replies were quite revealing:
Now at this point, even though I'm willing to accept that she's changed her views and don't wanna push it, the word "classism" gets my back up so I replied with
Kid gloves, as you can see. Not trying to be an arsehole. Trying to show the inherent weaknesses in that perspective of looking at the world. It continues, with @akvltghost (he of "Var of Piss" fame) adding a few things to stick up for her.
I don't even feel like giving her too much of a hard time for this, she's clearly embarassed about what she's written in the past, and god knows I've probably written stupid and witless things too at one point or another, as have we all at some point. But the emphasis on the individual, the way in which it's helped her personally grow, how her individual words are "a drop in the ocean of Kyriachy" and by extension removing them a minor victory against the Kyriachy, it boggles my mind. This notion of moderating your language, rather than it being a basic common courtesy and something you do to prevent people becoming alienated by those who are inconsiderate and who don't think before opening their mouths, but a form of political action in itself. Are people of my generational psychologically incapable of thinking of the world in terms of collective action or something? I mean whatever happened to old fashioned socialist concepts of solidarity and fellowship, that went beyond (or at least tried to, not always very well) individualism and united people from all kinds of backgrounds in a common cause that went beyond their individualism? Did all that die in the 80's, and am i some atavistic relic for being reluctant to throw myself in with this lot? Who was it who said "There's no such thing as society, just individuals and their identities" it's on here, but it's very prescient. This is the excrement produced when radicalism is eaten and digested by a generation of hegemonic neo-liberalism. That's Laurie Penny. They'll eat her alive anyway, they'd all kill for a job at the New Statesman, middle-class envy and jealousy is a big thing. They all want that life.
Incidentally I notice that Jo's into Black Metal and can I just say from personal experience there is no form of music, or sub-culture, that's more homogenus, middle class and white than Black Metal. I can remember when there was a black metal band in Manchester who were courting the far-right blood and honour crowd - British Freedom Fighters (Wigan Mike's lot, remember them) used to turn up to their gigs and stuff at fairly high profile venues in Manchester. And the overwhelming reaction was one of staring and their shoes and hoping it'd go away, or total indifference, or amongst a few open support and pleasure that they were there. They couldn't give a fuck.
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