Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Firky]

New generation of in yer face commentator attacks, mauls & consumes body of old generation of in yer face commentator- the cycle continues, nothing changes, free lunches are had

Mobius loop.

Maybe cynical but she's in the slip stream of Birchill and enjoying it.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I think Birchill would eat her alive in a face to face, judging by other PR shoddy live performances - I take it that Bircvhill isnt going to be at R4 at the same time ?

 

[rekil]

I think Birchill would eat her alive in a face to face, judging by other PR shoddy live performances - I take it that Bircvhill isnt going to be at R4 at the same time ?

Yeah, in a row, Burchill would do to Laura what Camille Paglia did to her a while back, only more so. Laura has no weapons, nothing. That's today btw.

 

[sihhi]

Mobius loop.

Maybe cynical but she's in the slip stream of Birchill and enjoying it.

More like the Great Commentariat Mobius Chess Battle.

http://www.chessvariants.org/shape.dir/moebius.html

This was the interview - listen from 33 minutes in -

http://www.breakthruradio.com/#/post/?dj=johnandmolly&post=2801&blog=92


On balance yes, gender (and the nuclear family) shouln't exist, but only class-based anti-capitalism will overthrow them.

However if 'essentialism' is so wholly wrong - it can only mean it's OK for Middle Eastern women to bleach skin to look more white?
It must also mean it's acceptable for working-class people to adopt middle-class behaviour and send children to grammar schools, or private schools on scholarships. It must also be 'OK' for people to undergo cosmetic operations for the purpose of looking less foreign as happens in America with correcting the upper facial features of East Asian migrants. If you want to not be who you are born, who is anyone to judge etc

 

[SpineyNorman]

Yeah, in a row, Burchill would do to Laura what Camille Paglia did to her a while back, only more so. Laura has no weapons, nothing. That's today btw.

What was that then?

 

[not-bono-ever]

What was that then?

here somewhere

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/7986481/fights-of-the-feminists/

 

[love detective]

and you can see the croissants, partially covered by Sunny's hand

The car is on fire, and there's no driver at the wheel
And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides
And a dark wind blows
And you can see the croissants, partially covered by Sunny's hand

We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine
And the machine is bleeding to death
And you can see the croissants, partially covered by Sunny's hand

The sun has fallen down
And the billboards are all leering
And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles
And you can see the croissants, partially covered by Sunny's hand

The buildings tumbled in on themselves
Mothers clutching babies
Picked through the rubble
And pulled out their hair
And you can see the croissants, partially covered by Sunny's hand

I open up my wallet
And it's full of blood

 

[sihhi]

What was that then?

In 1993 almost 20 years ago:

24 Mar 93
Dear Professor Paglia,
Fuck off you crazy old dyke.
Always,
Julie Burchill

http://privat.ub.uib.no/BUBSY/burchill.htm

If Burchill had used only one insult against transgender people it would have been alright.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Ah right, thought copliker meant that Paglia had done it to Dave Laurie.

 

[killer b]

Ah right, thought copliker meant that Paglia had done it to Dave Laurie.

he did. it is like a radical columnists version of the human centipede tbf.

 

[el-ahrairah]

However if 'essentialism' is so wholly wrong - it can only mean it's OK for Middle Eastern women to bleach skin to look more white?
It must also mean it's acceptable for working-class people to adopt middle-class behaviour and send children to grammar schools, or private schools on scholarships. It must also be 'OK' for people to undergo cosmetic operations for the purpose of looking less foreign as happens in America with correcting the upper facial features of East Asian migrants. If you want to not be who you are born, who is anyone to judge etc

The good thing about not being an essentialist is that you can be anything you want and anyone who says otherwise needs to check their goddam privilege.

This makes a mockery of safe spaces. It also broadly allows for the cognitive dissonance of the subjects of this thread.

 

[sihhi]

here somewhere

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/7986481/fights-of-the-feminists/

God, what an article from Guardian contributor Tanya Gold although has an interesting aside on LP

Newspaper columnists accusing each other of elitism and attention-seeking is a game that will always end in stalemate. Ideally, women who define themselves as feminists should want the same thing; more of everything for women — money, orgasms, sweeties, books about vaginas. If Naomi Wolf wants to write a love letter to her vagina, or earlobe, or knee, I will applaud her. Wolf is a hot, rich feminist with great boobs, and her cares are those of the hot, rich feminist with great boobs. Better orgasms are not a terrible thing to want, even if there is more to want; of course Vagina is niche.
Feminists love to fight, because many of us are writers, neurotics, professional screamers and builders of straw men. Good columns are rarely fair; I doubt Naomi Wolf daydreams she is our leader, as Janice Turner wrote, and I doubt Wolf ‘won’t be able to rest easy until all of womankind has heard her gospel and has started having sex that is not just pleasurable, but worthwhile’, as Zoe Heller wrote, with a murderous italic, in the New York Review of Books. But oblivious malice, it seems, is the way we debate. Laurie Penny once wrote she wanted to slap me with a wet fish because we disagree about the inherent health of prostitution as a career choice, even though I made her risotto, and it was delicious.
How dirty we get! The Wolf Affair, although riveting, pales next to the great Susan Sontag/Camille Paglia match of 1993, which is still, if I may type the word, the daddy.

 

[rekil]

he did. it is like a radical columnists version of the human centipede tbf.

Humyn centipede.

Is humyn even a thing?

 

[DotCommunist]

it sounds like a vegan staple

 

[ViolentPanda]

Luckies are big in america but yes, here they are for cunts.


Malboro now clocking in at near 6-7 quid for a twenty box are clearly the smoke for people who have too much money.

Biggest twat-ciggies are definitely American Spirit. I haven't smoked for nigh on 20 years, but they were twat-smokes then, and are still twat-smokes now.

 

[el-ahrairah]

Humyn centipede.

Is humyn even a thing?

it should be.

 

[sihhi]

The good thing about not being an essentialist is that you can be anything you want and anyone who says otherwise needs to check their goddam privilege.

Don't get that.

 

[Firky]

Well am never going to be able to listen to dead flag blues quite the same way again.

 

[Bakunin]

Biggest twat-ciggies are definitely American Spirit. I haven't smoked for nigh on 20 years, but they were twat-smokes then, and are still twat-smokes now.

Unlike four of five packs of these bastards every day:

 

[DotCommunist]

the hands down hardest smoke I've ever had was from pentonville smokers pack. Half ounce of pipe tobacco. You are not a man till you've smoked pipe tobacco through a jailhouse issue rizla.

 

[ViolentPanda]

She used to be in my CLP - from the very poshest part of the borough obviously.

Berger was woeful with reference to student politics (her partiality when the SOAS anti-semitism claims were aired was astounding), and apparently isn't a brilliant constituency MP. Not quite of Louise Mensch awfulness, but who is?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Mobius loop.

Maybe cynical but she's in the slip stream of Birchill and enjoying it.

Lets just hope Burchill doesn't guff.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think Birchill would eat her alive in a face to face, judging by other PR shoddy live performances - I take it that Bircvhill isnt going to be at R4 at the same time ?

Stoutist!! Check your sizeist privilege!

 

[el-ahrairah]

Don't get that.

If you take an essentialist viewpoint of left-wing politics, you might be forced to concede that (for example) anarchism and voting liberal don't fit together. an left-wing essentialist might put more weight of importance on class analysis than tweeting, but without an essentialist viewpoint you can tweet and pretend it's the same thing. Ditto identity groups - you don't need to be an oppressed minority but you can claim the right to be one and it's exactly the same thing. and the best bit is that anyone who criticises you is not only criticising everyone in your assumed group, but is also an essentialist and therefore probably a bigot.

 

[el-ahrairah]

the hands down hardest smoke I've ever had was from pentonville smokers pack. Half ounce of pipe tobacco. You are not a man till you've smoked pipe tobacco through a jailhouse issue rizla.

Strangely enough, I can therefore call myself a man. Although that's gender essentialism, so I'm officially a woman too. If I want to be.

 

[Firky]

Someone on here was called an essentialist leftie earlier

 

[Favelado]

10 Regal King Size please.

 

[weepiper]

Someone on here was called an essentialist leftie earlier

 

[DaveCinzano]

Remind me, which one's PJ and which one's Duncan?

 

[DaveCinzano]

That looks even worse than a bad meeting at the anarchist bookfair

If you like I could post up the audio* to an event called 'What's The Blogging Story?' I went to in Bristol.

Sunny, obviously, was on the top table wearing his 'Liberal Conspiracy' bigwig hat, along with Belle du Jour/Brooke Magnanti, Roy Greenslade (who spent an inordinate amount of time stick up for his mate Andrew Marr and his injunction preventing people mentioning that he'd been shtupping a woman not his wife), plus that Donnacha DeLong chap from the NUJ, Steve Baxter (now a New Statesman blogger) and Sarah Ditum (who writes the 'Paperhouse' blog).



* Actually, no. It's rather dull.