Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[sihhi]

afraid it does, have went back and edited my original post as I read through it!

Do you think this true, ld?

There is, however, a stubborn refusal to accept and deal with rape culture that is unique to the left and to progressives more broadly. It is precisely to do with the idea that, by virtue of being progressive, by virtue of fighting for equality and social justice, by virtue of, well, virtue, we are somehow above being held personally accountable when it comes to issues of race, gender and sexual violence.

 

[sihhi]

Penny's latest piece on the SWP debacle gets off to a cracking start

It's almost as if someone is goading IWCA on purpose after the run-in with Dave Thurrock.

They are at the forefront of the fight against street fascism in Britain.

 

[Firky]

I have just read that NS article, love det' posted. Do you think she consciously chose to exploit the SWP saga? I don't know, man. She may use the fragility of a man's MH problems for her own gain and go against MH professional's advice, but rape?

As much as I don't like her, I am going to put that one down to total lack of awareness more than anything.

 

[Firky]

Thought this sums it up quite neatly:

Abi ‏@AbiWilks
.@jamesrbuk If you're a trans woman how are you supposed to stand in solidarity with someone calling you a man "with their dick cut off"?!

 

[rosecore]

I have just read that NS article, love det' posted. Do you think she consciously chose to exploit the SWP saga? I don't know, man. She may use the fragility of a man's MH problems for her own gain and go against MH professional's advice, but rape?

As much as I don't like her, I am going to put that one down to total lack of awareness more than anything.

Maybe more of a "I need to be the first journalist to cover this story".

 

[not-bono-ever]

Is Identity Politcs becoming the new Godwins law ?

 

[Belushi]

Maybe we should add a journo-non journo spoke to the wheel of oppression..

 

[Firky]

Maybe more of a "I need to be the first journalist to cover this story".

Aye, that's a point.

 

[Favelado]

Is Identity Politcs becoming the new Godwins law ?

That's the kind of thing the Nazis used to ask.

 

[DotCommunist]

Maybe we should add a journo-non journo spoke to the wheel of oppression..

or maybe it could be like that bit of card you stick in between the spokes to make the rattling noise as you ride

disclaimer: i haven't done that since i was at least 18

 

[DaveCinzano]

...focusing on the gender of the posters.

Not so much focusing as presupposing based on one's own argument.

 

[equationgirl]

1. Serial Killer: the board game

​

This extremely grim affair was created by serial killer enthusiast Tobias Allen in the early 90s and was quickly banned in Canada. The board game was packaged in a body bag and the objective was to kill as many people (originally babies until Mr Allen realised he may have pushed it a bit far) and ensuring capture by police only took place in U.S. states without the death penalty. Unsurprisingly the game is now (officially at least) unavailable to buy.

Do you own that?

 

[sihhi]

I have just read that NS article, love det' posted. Do you think she consciously chose to exploit the SWP saga?

I don't think this is conscious exploitation, but the article with LMU students in occupation of rooms in the campus was on those lines. What does the photograph give other than 'Hah look how evil they are with their faces covered'. That's what the standard media does, someone trying to assist struggles should re-think the whole approach.



This piece and others at the time really established her. She had contacts with the Zoe Stavri-Jonny Marbles end of the world obviously.

And now it's along the lines of 'the left has an inability to face up to its identity politics weaknesses'
where it's not soft nationalism/unionism:

 

[equationgirl]

As far as I can see, intersectional feminism is basically feminism that considers all second wave stuff as done, criticises the majority of feminists for being too white, rich and eurocentric. Instead it should include women of colour, women from non-western backgrounds, differently abled, trans women and women who don't fit into those categories.

Because if anyone is left behind, feminism is oppressing.

It's a bit like a cool new gang, who criticise everyone else for being in a gang - even if some of them have actually made great steps in community engagement and progress. Because it doesn't meet their standards. I suspect the majority of those trashing feminism as a white middle class womens movement are white middle class women, and have an intersectional theory based view on all of the work that feminism has done involving all of the groups highlighted above.

What's a bit odd is that lots, not all, feminist groups are open to all women. There's the usual grumbling argument over trans women, but you don't resolve that by declaring the argument to be oppressive. And by highlighting the multiple forms of oppression that a black woman might suffer over a white woman, you can make people aware of the different struggles within a movement - but how does that translate into action?

And where, where is any analysis of class beyond the idea that feminism is just a rich western white girls game?

Reductionist, leading to absurdity and broad brush dismissal of complex and hard fought for gains.

I have some very interesting conversations with one of the men I work with about feminism. He's married to a militant feminist activist and has two equally militant feminist daughters.

 

[rekil]

I agree with you; there's little value in dissecting the minutiae of your online footprint.

And I regret the way that you have become one of the principal subjects of debate in this thread (albeit largely as a cipher for the phenomenon that you represent). Mostly, I regret it because you don't have that much significance to the serious discussion which takes place on these boards, or across the 'left' generally. But also, partly because some of the individual remarks were a bit close to the mark, and partly because even the more innocuous pisstaking (amongst which I consider some of my own jibes) could have a fairly oppressive effect when taken together. As much as I disagree with a lot of what you say, and as much as I dislike the elite liberal commentariat of which you are a part, ultimately, you are not the principal enemy, and I bear you no malice. I share some of Red Cat's discomfort about some of what has gone on in this thread, especially as you are a young person with some vulnerability.

But, you need to accept the lion's share of the responsibility for the personal nature of what has gone on. It's hard not to be personal when talking about your work, because you have made yourself and your image part of the brand; there are plenty of writers whose ideas I disagree with, but I don't know what they look and sound like, where they live, and who their friends are. If you're going to put that stuff out there to cultivate a public face, then it's going to be scrutinised.

More specifically, the only way people could engage with you on this thread is on a personal basis; you have not been willing to engage on any other level. Had you come here to contribute to "useful political discourse" then I'm sure people would have engaged with you on that level (I think equationgirl came closest to doing so). But I get the impression that your MO is to make pronouncements rather than enter debate; in fact, you appear to be affronted when anyone offers a counter-opinion. Furthermore, you often make things personal in your interactions with others e.g. the Starkey row and your criticisms of Harvey et al for being old white men. But, nevertheless, should you still wish to enter into political discourse (on this and other threads), it's not too late. And, as much as I disagree with you, I actually hope that you do engage.

And I hope that you have seen that, even on this thread, there's been some really interesting discussion. I think you got off on the wrong foot here by jumping to conclusions about about what this place (and it's population) is like. In fairness to you, I can understand how that might happen; I know that you must be used to being abused by idiots on Twitter etc. But it doesn't follow that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll, or a misogynist etc. Maybe we all need to focus on ideas a bit more, rather than personalities and egos.

Athos and the rest of the misogyny rabble so-called left here scan the heavens for La Pennionara's next flypast and leaflet drop.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Athos and the rest of the misogyny rabble so-called left here scan the heavens for La Pennionara's next flypast and leaflet drop.

View attachment 27410

Just look at those gendered brutes, genetically predestined for violence, punching themselves in their heads!

 

[equationgirl]

PD should host an intersectionality film festival or something. There must be pots of cash to be made from this caper.

Please, please, please do a poster promoting the insectionality film festival to raise funds for the bomb

 

[Orang Utan]

Wtf is rapebombing?

 

[Firky]

I don't think this is conscious exploitation, but the article with LMU students in occupation of rooms in the campus was on those lines. What does the photograph give other than 'Hah look how evil they are with their faces covered'. That's what the standard media does, someone trying to assist struggles should re-think the whole approach.

This piece and others at the time really established her. She had contacts with the Zoe Stavri-Jonny Marbles end of the world obviously.

And now it's along the lines of 'the left has an inability to face up to its identity politics weaknesses'
where it's not soft nationalism/unionism:

I am going to give her pass on that SWP article because I don't think even LP would use something like rape as a springboard.

I like your posts sihhi, the way you include pictures. Is your twitter in Turkish or Greek (showing my ignorance)?

(my grandma had that wallpaper in her kitchen >_<)

 

[rekil]

I like your posts sihhi,

A few paragraph breaks would be nice. Dunno about anyone else but I have trouble with large blocks of text.

 

[Firky]

Wtf is rapebombing?

Fuck knows, another demonstration of language which alienates people. Kyriarchy etc. If I was to hazard a guess I'd say spiking people's speed with ket and sexually assaulting them

 

[rekil]

Please, please, please do a poster promoting the insectionality film festival to raise funds for the bomb

I'll have a go at something over the weekend. Need film submission ideas. True Identity is ideal.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I'll have a go at something over the weekend. Need film submission ideas. True Identity is ideal.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Or a double bill:

vs

 

[not-bono-ever]

She was online at about 4am this morning or yesterday morning, just me and her. So she too has insomnia or she's off swanning about NYC again. Doesn't she worry about her carbon foot print? Not only does she live a jetset life she wastes paper every time an article is printed. Polar bears are up in arms about it, but that is their white bear privilege.

she is busy

"Every five minutes I spend responding to some random dick-swinging troll on the internet is five minutes not spent researching the legitimacy of international adoption, or working on my book, or answering emails, or reading journals, or going to solidarity meetings, or snatching the occasional bit of downtime, or doing the washing up, or digging little bits of fluff out of my belly button, all of which are activities more deserving of my immediate attention than a small tribe of bitchy online hate-weasels."

http://pennyred.blogspot.co.uk/2011_05_01_archive.html

 

[rekil]

Just look at those gendered brutes, genetically predestined for violence, punching themselves in their heads!

The Left Needs A New Salute (1000 words on why the raised fist should be replaced with something less macho like a wiggly fingers coo-eee greeting. Easy money.)

 

[cesare]

Maybe more of a "I need to be the first journalist to cover this story".

Definitely.

 

[sihhi]

A few paragraph breaks would be nice. Dunno about anyone else but I have trouble with large blocks of text.

noted but no promises

Laurie Penny must think we are all worse than the BDSM scene (ugh!)

http://pennyred.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/whipping-boys.html

Whipping boys: a post for International Fetish Day



By contrast, I have never encountered an erotic culture with as much respect for women, with as much respect for humanity in general, as the fetish industry and scene. Because the true nature of the perversion is accepted for what it is, the necessity of drawing a distinction between fantasy and reality, the importance of empowering and looking after the models and actors, is very much insisted upon. That's what gets me about this bill. I'm against censorship, but if I had to pick one type of pornography to ban, I would come to the fetish and BDSM scene last of all. Because we are what we jerk off to: fetishists are merely honest about it.


The BDSM scene is the only erotic scene I have ever encountered where I have ever felt that if I said the word 'no', it would be respected. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the BDSM scene is the only forum in the country where people are actually adult about sex and aware of what does and doesn't imply consent.

 

[Firky]

she is busy

"Every five minutes I spend responding to some random dick-swinging troll on the internet is five minutes not spent researching the legitimacy of international adoption, or working on my book, or answering emails, or reading journals, or going to solidarity meetings, or snatching the occasional bit of downtime, or doing the washing up, or digging little bits of fluff out of my belly button, all of which are activities more deserving of my immediate attention than a small tribe of bitchy online hate-weasels."

http://pennyred.blogspot.co.uk/2011_05_01_archive.html

Fuck me, that's just given me the green light to troll her more

 

[cesare]

I quite like "hate-weasel" though

You bunch of otter, otter, bastards.