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Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

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discokermit said:
wrong. i and five others were removed from the member list of one medium sized branch in one year.
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When was that out of interest? I'm basing my comments on the fact that if they didn't see it as necessary to remove me from the list they'd probably never have reason to remove anyone - from talking to older Swappies this is something that's got a lot worse since TC died.
 
What you've gotta remember is that Laurie's private education was wasted on her. With her it's all innate. She'd still have been a major political voice and public intellectual if she'd been sent to the local comp...even if she'd been raised by wolves. She's a natural...a fighter...she's got street-smarts, swagger, balls. The bad guys know her and they leave her alone...and she's as sharp as a razor...lightning reactions, and a facility with metaphor which is the rhetorical equivalent of the Bruce Lee 1 inch punch...kerpow!!

In fact, that's how it is with most privately educated people...they're just smart anyway...that's how private schools do so well. They just make sure they recruit all the really smart kids...and luckily their parents can afford it...cos they're smart too...it's all genetics...like Shergar...and Lord Lucan. QED
 
I hated school. It was shite. Just a load of boring wank all fuckin day. I wouldn't give you tuppence for it. Maybe schools have changed...but I bet they're still shite. My dad used to let me nick off as long as I went to the library for a couple of hours a day. I reckon I'd have been locked up years ago if I'd gone to school every day.
Beyond the principle of the thing, I just can't imagine how you'd bring yourself to fork out to a school. I'd pay to close the bloody things.
 
I'm not knocking education. just schools...or maybe just my school...who knows...mind you, it shut about 20 years ago...so maybe I'm wasting my time. But I kinda suspect it isn't just me.
 
One thing that is intriguing is how leftie journalists always big up other leftie journalists as being the *best thing*. Here is Sunny Hundal pointing out America Matt Taibi in the Rolling Stone is superior to any activist or academic on the left in this country in analysis of capitalism:


Alex ‏@Potentia_Space
@sunny_hundal I think an understanding of how capitalism works is essential for the development of a strategy to combat austerity
Sunny Hundal‏@sunny_hundal​

@Potentia_Space Matt Taibi / Rolling Stone for eg does a much better job than any radical academic or activist on left in the UK.


 
SpineyNorman said:
When was that out of interest? I'm basing my comments on the fact that if they didn't see it as necessary to remove me from the list they'd probably never have reason to remove anyone - from talking to older Swappies this is something that's got a lot worse since TC died.
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'94.

if you look at their figures, they say they are up 470 members on last year and have recruited 750 so far this year. so 280 must have come off the list.

ther are real arguments to be had about the organisational structure of the swp, extending to the idea of a vanguard party (the real one, not the sloppy caricature) and how revolutionaries organise themselves. you seem to be lapsing into lazy sectarianism, which doesn't do you any good at all.
 
discokermit said:
ther are real arguments to be had about the organisational structure of the swp, extending to the idea of a vanguard party (the real one, not the sloppy caricature) and how revolutionaries organise themselves. you seem to be lapsing into lazy sectarianism, which doesn't do you any good at all.
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Some of the saner contributions to the IBs made pretty much the point SpineyNorman was making, albeit in a less extreme way. The SWP's membership figures constitute organised self-delusion. Every year there's the same exasperated complaints in the IBs about it, because the numbers are just too far out of whack to be plausible.
 
discokermit said:
'94.

if you look at their figures, they say they are up 470 members on last year and have recruited 750 so far this year. so 280 must have come off the list.

ther are real arguments to be had about the organisational structure of the swp, extending to the idea of a vanguard party (the real one, not the sloppy caricature) and how revolutionaries organise themselves. you seem to be lapsing into lazy sectarianism, which doesn't do you any good at all.
Click to expand...

Obviously that was an exaggeration - clearly some people do get taken off - whether it be due to expulsions, high profile resignations, deaths or emigration. But anyone who really thinks the membership list is in any way a reflection of the actual membership is seriously deluding themselves - nobody I know in the SWP thinks this - it's a running joke between them.

And I don't think I am lapsing into sectarianism, lazy or not. In the post you initially replied to what I said about it being almost impossible to be taken off the membership is almost a direct paraphrasing of one of the IB contributions - are SWP members indulging in lazy sectarianism too?

SWP Internal Bulletin part 2 said:
It is well known that the majority of people on the lists are not members (many never were), and that it is easier to squeeze blood from a stone than getting people taken off. These lists are then used as a basis for an assessment of our organisations size, which is clearly going to be completely distorted.
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I'm actually pretty pragmatic and non-sectarian in my politics. The person I work closest with politically is a member of the SWP. I think this kind of criticism is essential if they're not to continue along the path towards sectarian irrelevance and clearly some of the members do too - with the possible exceptions of the AWL and other weird microsects I'd actually quite like to see the influence of all the far left groups increase. But that's only going to happen if the groups are honest with themselves and the iron grip of the leadership (a problem in all left groups but especially acute in the SWP) is loosened to allow for genuine democratic decision making.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
Some of the saner contributions to the IBs made pretty much the point SpineyNorman was making, albeit in a less extreme way. The SWP's membership figures constitute organised self-delusion. That they know this at some level, even as they ignore the annual burst of complaints about it in the IBs, is implicit in their practice of also including a percentage of "members" who pay any kind of regular subs (31%). This allows the members who care to get some sort of idea of their size while not frightening the horses.
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exactly. it's more nuanced than "they never take anyone off the list! lol!".
 
sihhi said:
One thing that is intriguing is how leftie journalists always big up other leftie journalists as being the *best thing*. Here is Sunny Hundal pointing out America Matt Taibi in the Rolling Stone is superior to any activist or academic on the left in this country in analysis of capitalism:


Alex ‏@Potentia_Space
@sunny_hundal I think an understanding of how capitalism works is essential for the development of a strategy to combat austerity

Sunny Hundal‏@sunny_hundal

@Potentia_Space Matt Taibi / Rolling Stone for eg does a much better job than any radical academic or activist on left in the UK.
Click to expand...


That Matt Taibi must be some kind of guy... I'm smitten already!

superactivist-2-banner.jpg
 
framed said:
That Matt Taibi must be some kind of guy... I'm smitten already!
Click to expand...

I think Sunny does have some kind of America problem - that US people are *smarter* - hence him rating Matt Taibi above all British left intellectuals David Harvey, Ben Fine, Hillel Ticktin, David Yaaffe etc etc.
 
Ibn Khaldoun said:
which means?

sorry, i know much less about this stuff
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Victory of the Eathlings

It's a special abbreviation used in anticipation of the day we overthrow the lizard overlords. It's acts as a kind of identifier for members of the global resistance brotherhood. Weren't you told to learn the abbreviations and handshakes before your initiation? That's sloppy. Which sector are you in, and who's your controller?
 
SpineyNorman said:
Obviously that was an exaggeration - clearly some people do get taken off - whether it be due to expulsions, high profile resignations, deaths or emigration. But anyone who really thinks the membership list is in any way a reflection of the actual membership is seriously deluding themselves - nobody I know in the SWP thinks this - it's a running joke between them.
Click to expand...
you missed off "quiet low profile backdoor expulsions". of course no one believes the membership numbers. no one believes the numbers in any left organisation because they are always inaccurate. again, there are arguments to be had here but you blow it by repeating a falsehood.


And I don't think I am lapsing into sectarianism, lazy or not. In the post you initially replied to what I said about it being almost impossible to be taken off the membership is almost a direct paraphrasing of one of the IB contributions - are SWP members indulging in lazy sectarianism too?
Click to expand...
bending the stick, comrade!



I'm actually pretty pragmatic and non-sectarian in my politics. The person I work closest with politically is a member of the SWP. I think this kind of criticism is essential if they're not to continue along the path towards sectarian irrelevance and clearly some of the members do too - with the possible exceptions of the AWL and other weird microsects I'd actually quite like to see the influence of all the far left groups increase. But that's only going to happen if the groups are honest with themselves and the iron grip of the leadership (a problem in all left groups but especially acute in the SWP) is loosened to allow for genuine democratic decision making.
Click to expand...
tadaaa! see, that's better, isn't it?

i love you spiny. let us never have crossed words again.
 
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