We were relaying on you to supply all the gory details.
There will be a test so get stuck in....'cking hell. I go away for the weekend and this is what awaits me?
wrong. i and five others were removed from the member list of one medium sized branch in one year.never, ever remove anyone from the membership lists.
c,mon.I. I used to actually enjoy this stuff!
wrong. i and five others were removed from the member list of one medium sized branch in one year.
meant to be following through his message
yeah, the fourth wall was well and truly trashed over the weekend...
WAIT FOR MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're a Laurie Penny sock account and I claim my £5
'94.When was that out of interest? I'm basing my comments on the fact that if they didn't see it as necessary to remove me from the list they'd probably never have reason to remove anyone - from talking to older Swappies this is something that's got a lot worse since TC died.
'once you're on the sex-offenders register'Sorry?
VOE'once you're on the sex-offenders register'
ther are real arguments to be had about the organisational structure of the swp, extending to the idea of a vanguard party (the real one, not the sloppy caricature) and how revolutionaries organise themselves. you seem to be lapsing into lazy sectarianism, which doesn't do you any good at all.
All your base are belong to us.Multi-human - resistance is futile. We are in you.
'94.
if you look at their figures, they say they are up 470 members on last year and have recruited 750 so far this year. so 280 must have come off the list.
ther are real arguments to be had about the organisational structure of the swp, extending to the idea of a vanguard party (the real one, not the sloppy caricature) and how revolutionaries organise themselves. you seem to be lapsing into lazy sectarianism, which doesn't do you any good at all.
SWP Internal Bulletin part 2 said:It is well known that the majority of people on the lists are not members (many never were), and that it is easier to squeeze blood from a stone than getting people taken off. These lists are then used as a basis for an assessment of our organisations size, which is clearly going to be completely distorted.
exactly. it's more nuanced than "they never take anyone off the list! lol!".Some of the saner contributions to the IBs made pretty much the point SpineyNorman was making, albeit in a less extreme way. The SWP's membership figures constitute organised self-delusion. That they know this at some level, even as they ignore the annual burst of complaints about it in the IBs, is implicit in their practice of also including a percentage of "members" who pay any kind of regular subs (31%). This allows the members who care to get some sort of idea of their size while not frightening the horses.
One thing that is intriguing is how leftie journalists always big up other leftie journalists as being the *best thing*. Here is Sunny Hundal pointing out America Matt Taibi in the Rolling Stone is superior to any activist or academic on the left in this country in analysis of capitalism:
Alex @Potentia_Space
@sunny_hundal I think an understanding of how capitalism works is essential for the development of a strategy to combat austerity
Sunny Hundal@sunny_hundal
@Potentia_Space Matt Taibi / Rolling Stone for eg does a much better job than any radical academic or activist on left in the UK.
Voice Of Experiencewhich means?
sorry, i know much less about this stuff
exactly. it's more nuanced than "they never take anyone off the list! lol!".
That Matt Taibi must be some kind of guy... I'm smitten already!
which means?
sorry, i know much less about this stuff
you missed off "quiet low profile backdoor expulsions". of course no one believes the membership numbers. no one believes the numbers in any left organisation because they are always inaccurate. again, there are arguments to be had here but you blow it by repeating a falsehood.Obviously that was an exaggeration - clearly some people do get taken off - whether it be due to expulsions, high profile resignations, deaths or emigration. But anyone who really thinks the membership list is in any way a reflection of the actual membership is seriously deluding themselves - nobody I know in the SWP thinks this - it's a running joke between them.
bending the stick, comrade!And I don't think I am lapsing into sectarianism, lazy or not. In the post you initially replied to what I said about it being almost impossible to be taken off the membership is almost a direct paraphrasing of one of the IB contributions - are SWP members indulging in lazy sectarianism too?
tadaaa! see, that's better, isn't it?I'm actually pretty pragmatic and non-sectarian in my politics. The person I work closest with politically is a member of the SWP. I think this kind of criticism is essential if they're not to continue along the path towards sectarian irrelevance and clearly some of the members do too - with the possible exceptions of the AWL and other weird microsects I'd actually quite like to see the influence of all the far left groups increase. But that's only going to happen if the groups are honest with themselves and the iron grip of the leadership (a problem in all left groups but especially acute in the SWP) is loosened to allow for genuine democratic decision making.
oh ok. articul8 is a 'voice of experienceVoice Of Experience