Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[SpineyNorman]

Personally I take offence when someone tells 13,000 people I'm a racist.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Love Detective is Normski?

Tony James.

 

[Nice one]

You remember how, about 30 years ago, Neil of "The Young Ones" called everybody a fascist, and Rik denounced any action taken by any person reactionary?
I suspect it's something along those lines.

on the first page of this thread then

 

[love detective]

Personally I take offence when someone tells 13,000 people I'm a racist.

i'm sure laurie penny will be along shortly to explain exactly what was racist in the article that she hasn't read, won't she?

can you do that laura? can you give it a go?

 

[Delroy Booth]

not only that, but apparently i'm a racist as well for sending laurie penny a link to an IWCA article on why identity politics are reactionary

I saw that. Absolutely unbelievable.

Hey Laurie you can't be a liberal and an anarchist at the same time y'know.

It certainly makes it much easier for her to block people who question her shit reactionary politics

you didn't even read the article did you laura?

Of course she fucking didn't, she saw the title and thought "They don't like multiculturalism, they must be a far-right group" perhaps you should have explained to her where the IWCA came from?

The mind just boggles. This is like when Phil Dickens gave that speech to some conference or whatever, outlining the basic anarchist position against liberal state-led multiculturalism, and all the middle-class fuckwits had some sort of collective breakdown, calling him a racist etc.

That's a guy who spends half his life dodging death threats from maniac scouse nazi's, and a load of fucking middle-class liberals who haven't even so much as lifted a finger to resist the BNP and EDL calling him a racist. Just unbelievable.

EDIT Laurie, I assume you're lurking, by this logic you do realize that you're calling me, and practically every other militant anti-fascist in the country, a racist?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't particularly blame you for not wanting to engage with anyone in the thread, as it all probably just segues together, though it's not fair to say everyone here is reactionary. Only a few are.

Including yourself.

 

[Firky]

Personally I take offence when someone tells 13,000 people I'm a racist.

Well you will associate yourself with the IWCA.

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

'I attach no more credence to 'feminist epistemologies' or 'queer histories' than I do to 'Jewish Physics'. I don't think you make cohesive societies by erecting fences and demarcating debates in terms of 'valid' participants and modes of expression. '

Seriously, thank you. This is all I needed to read to understand that this thread a total and utter reactionary irrelevance.

Don't get me wrong...I'm all for selective and tendentious quoting...but this thread seems to be two years old...and 235 pages long. I've been here for about 36 hours, and appear on about 3 pages. And yet it seems I exemplify the place. How fuckin cool is that! Maybe it's my spiritual homeland.

As for your comment...erm...you know...whatever.

PS

Stop makin stuff up.

 

[tufty79]

And the piece was edited with the help of The Samaritans.

Did you also consult the Samaritans when you wrote your reply and the article? or just when you edited the final piece? (assuming it was yourself doing the editing?)

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

I thought I told you to fuck off?

and i don't listen to shit like that. and that was your reply to a factual statement. and i told you to fuck off instead.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Interesting how that one gets an immediate answer but Delroy's and Butchers's perfectly reasonable and polite questions remain unanswered isn't it?

And can you explain why you blocked me and another twitter user for 'racism' after he posted this article (IWCA piece on the reactionary consequences of state multiculturalism)on twitter and I retweeted it please @lauriepenny?

I hope you realise that the person who posted that is a well respected veteran antifascist - seems libelous to me.

Racism isn't what you believe it to be, it's what the person throwing the label around believes it to be.
In this case it appears the person throwing the label around believes it to be a convenient way of avoiding engagement with inconvenient truths.

 

[JimW]

Don't get me wrong...I'm all for selective and tendentious quoting..

 

[SpineyNorman]

She'll interview Tommy Robinson but a former AFA group gets no platformed

and this:

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
@LoveDetective1 @spineynorman78 oh. Oh, I see. You're racist. That makes this so much easier *blocks*

Is very revealing - much easier to slander than to engage.

 

[stethoscope]

She'll interview Tommy Robinson but a former AFA group gets no platformed

Jeez

 

[love detective]

Of course she fucking didn't, she saw the title and thought "They don't like multiculturalism, they must be a far-right group" perhaps you should have explained to her where the IWCA came from?

This is one reason i have little time for twitter - it empties out and renders impossible even the potential for any kind of substantive and meaningful political discussion, presumably this is why the likes of Penny like it so much

 

[SpineyNorman]

Well you will associate yourself with the IWCA.

You're a bad, bad man

 

[ViolentPanda]

I saw that. Absolutely unbelievable.

Hey Laurie you can't be a liberal and an anarchist at the same time y'know.

perhaps there's some weird cult of Lib-Anarchism, akin to Anarcho-Capitalism and right-libertarianism in it's contradictory nature?

Of course she fucking didn't, she saw the title and thought "They don't like multiculturalism, they must be a far-right group" perhaps you should have explained to her where the IWCA came from?

The mind just boggles. This is like when Phil Dickens gave that speech to some conference or whatever, outlining the basic anarchist position against liberal state-led multiculturalism, and all the middle-class fuckwits had some sort of collective breakdown, calling him a racist etc.

That's a guy who spends half his life dodging death threats from maniac scouse nazi's, and a load of fucking middle-class liberals who haven't even so much as lifted a finger to resist the BNP and EDL calling him a racist. Just unbelievable.

It's easier and more comfortable than challenging your own assumptions, to take that route, though.

EDIT Laurie, I assume you're lurking, by this logic you do realize that you're calling me, and practically every other militant anti-fascist in the country, a racist?

Dammit!!
Once again I have my nose rubbed in the fact that, as a Jew, I'm cast straight from the Jabotinsky mould!! Damn my self-hating racist ways!

(little bit of identity politics there! )

 

[SpineyNorman]

A racist documentary made by racists.

 

[rekil]

Ah fuck it, just no. Here, have a tune instead.

Everybody at your party
They don't look depressed
Everybody's dressin' funny
Color me impressed

Stayin' out late tonight
Won't be gettin' any sleep
Givin' out their word
Cuz that's all that they won't keep

 

[Delroy Booth]

How come Laurie is prepared to answer other people's questions, but refuses to answer mine? I have no presumption at all about your answers and I'm not trying to con you in any way

Now I've answered Laurie's questions in good faith, perhaps you'd return the favour and answer a few of mine?

1) What do you think about the spat between the NUJ and the New Statesman? Are you a member of the NUJ?

2) Did the decision to run the advert from the homophobic christian group in the New Statesman make you reconsider working for them? And do you know where the proceeds of said advertisement ended up?

3) Why did you give Stephen Lennon of the EDL a platform, at a point when the EDL is in terminal decline and where his agenda, ie using you and other journalists to try and revive it (whilst getting a good free scran too) was blatant from the outset?

Laurie Penny, she who gives platforms to fascists and who works for a scabbing, homophobic liberal paper, scratching her head with bemusement at why a forum riddled with anarchists, anti-fascists, socialists and trade unionists are often critical of her.

The one thing they definitely don't teach in Oxbridge is self-awareness.

 

[equationgirl]

This is one reason i have little time for twitter - it empties out and renders impossible even the potential for any kind of substantive and meaningful political discussion, presumably this is why the likes of Penny like it so much

Not just political discussion, any type of discussion. Twitter is vacuous, for the attention seeking.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Including yourself.

Sure. Whatever

 

[SpineyNorman]

and i don't listen to shit like that. and that was your reply to a factual statement. and i told you to fuck off instead.

No time for your playschool comments - we're dealing with slanderous comments against 'so called leftists' made by a pseudo-radical journalist and blogger.

 

[Firky]

This is one reason i have little time for twitter - it empties out and renders impossible even the potential for any kind of substantive and meaningful political discussion, presumably this is why the likes of Penny like it so much

You're from the wrong generation, this is tweety12 and laurie can have a nice revolution on her work iphone.

 

[ViolentPanda]

How come Laurie is prepared to answer other people's questions, but refuses to answer mine? I have no presumption at all about your answers and I'm not trying to con you in any way

It's cos you is black, innit?

 

[JimW]

How come Laurie is prepared to answer other people's questions, but refuses to answer mine? I have no presumption at all about your answers and I'm not trying to con you in any way

Sure you've never attempted to have her read an article by Malatesta and been blocked as a fascist?

 

[Delroy Booth]

The thing is, she'll still be all incredulous about the fact we don't revere and love her unconditionally, even though she slandered us all as racists.

I think we should no platform Laurie Penny.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Thing is, people I work with politically, people from my university - fuck, my black ex-partner and two of the four mixed race kids I helped her bring up (that's my little bit identity politics for you) are on twitter and see stuff on my feed.

It's a fucking disgrace and she really ought to retract that comment.

 

[equationgirl]

How come Laurie is prepared to answer other people's questions, but refuses to answer mine? I have no presumption at all about your answers and I'm not trying to con you in any way

She didn't answer the question about whether or not she had consent from the disabled letter-writer either.

 

[Delroy Booth]

She didn't answer the question about whether or not she had consent from the disabled letter-writer either.

Fuck you and your misogyny!