Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[stethoscope]

Take note VP, first up against the wall when the staple gun starts firing. The revolution will not be televised but rather sold as a pamphlet

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Very good posts from Delroy and Belushi on this thread.

 

[ViolentPanda]

we all hate women apparently. All of us. All women.

Are you one of those self-hating women, then?

 

[Bakunin]

And subbing, while a difficult job, especially if half the journalists are so old they use half a dozen different forms of shorthand between them, doesn't feature quite the same "coal face" exposure as being a lowly cub

You do suffer the risk of scribblers publicly blaming you for subbing their work so incompetently that it leaves a false impression, though, to be fair...

 

[Delroy Booth]

Now I've answered Laurie's questions in good faith, perhaps you'd return the favour and answer a few of mine?

1) What do you think about the spat between the NUJ and the New Statesman? Are you a member of the NUJ?

2) Did the decision to run the advert from the homophobic christian group in the New Statesman make you reconsider working for them? And do you know where the proceeds of said advertisement ended up?

3) Why did you give Stephen Lennon of the EDL a platform, at a point when the EDL is in terminal decline and where his agenda, ie using you and other journalists to try and revive it (whilst getting a good free scran too) was blatant from the outset?

Laurie Penny, she who gives platforms to fascists and who works for a scabbing, homophobic liberal paper, scratching her head with bemusement at why a forum riddled with anarchists, anti-fascists, socialists and trade unionists are often critical of her.

The one thing they definitely don't teach in Oxbridge is self-awareness.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not sleazy and disgusting in a really pleasurable sense, then?

Unfortunately not.

 

[8den]

Laurie, welcome to Urban, Ignore Butchers and Dwyer, have a hob nob, are you firky etc....

Just a caveat please don't think that just because some people are talking about you at length, that you are somewhat important or relevant. There are people on these boards who can hold grudges for periods of time that could only be measured on a geological scale. I mean christ look at the thread title, the OP is about a handbag fight between you, Alex and the SWP, to be any less politically relevant you may as well talk about the SDP.

Not that I'm necessarily on your side or anything Laurie, it's just like watching chum getting thrown into the sharks.

 

[lauriepenny]

Belushi is a very nice person, he doesn't pick on people, he doesn't bully, he isn't in a clique - he is saying this to you.

You know what Laurie, I really like the fact that you've come on here to argue the toss because its a real bear pit and that takes some guts. And I think you're sincere in your believes and mean well, but amid the slagging off on this thread there is a real point, and that is that even though you dont realise it for some of us you're part of the problem with the British left not part of the solution.

I understand that, and thank you for acknowledging. It's kind of funny that you think I'm the 'problem with the British left'.

Personally, though, I think the problem with the British Left is that the people who are meant to be its best and most fervent fighters waste their time on in-fighting, petty bullying and tearing down anyone who puts their head above the parapet. I think the problem with the British Left is that too many of us would rather attack each other and turn our energy outwards. I think the problem with the British Left is that it's riddled with bitterness and barely acknowledged misogyny. And I think that this thread is the perfect example of all of those things.

 

[Blagsta]

I understand that, and thank you for acknowledging. It's kind of funny that you think I'm the 'problem with the British left'.

Personally, though, I think the problem with the British Left is that the people who are meant to be its best and most fervent fighters waste their time on in-fighting, petty bullying and tearing down anyone who puts their head above the parapet. I think the problem with the British Left is that too many of us would rather attack each other and turn our energy outwards. I think the problem with the British Left is that it's riddled with bitterness and barely acknowledged misogyny. And I think that this thread is the perfect example of all of those things.

Nothing to do with class then?

 

[rekil]

Laurie, welcome to Urban, Ignore Butchers and Dwyer, have a hob nob, are you firky etc....

Just a caveat please don't think that just because some people are talking about you at length, that you are somewhat important or relevant. There are people on these boards who can hold grudges for periods of time that could only be measured on a geological scale. I mean christ look at the thread title, the OP is about a handbag fight between you, Alex and the SWP, to be any less politically relevant you may as well talk about the SDP.

Not that I'm necessarily on your side or anything Laurie, it's just like watching chum getting thrown into the sharks.

Don't you start you disgusting cunt.

For all Laurie's faults, I doubt we'll see her doing anything as disgraceful as backing the coppers in Genoa, especially the card carrying fascist one who murdered Carlo Giuliani.

Then again, never say never, them commentariats are fickle rascals.

 

[butchersapron]

I understand that, and thank you for acknowledging. It's kind of funny that you think I'm the 'problem with the British left'.

Personally, though, I think the problem with the British Left is that the people who are meant to be its best and most fervent fighters waste their time on in-fighting, petty bullying and tearing down anyone who puts their head above the parapet. I think the problem with the British Left is that too many of us would rather attack each other and turn our energy outwards. I think the problem with the British Left is that it's riddled with bitterness and barely acknowledged misogyny. And I think that this thread is the perfect example of all of those things.

I don't care what you think the problem is with the british left.I KNOW that you're part of the problem. See this thread and it's multi-faceted discussions for why. Or not fucking bother...

 

[TruXta]

I understand that, and thank you for acknowledging. It's kind of funny that you think I'm the 'problem with the British left'.

Personally, though, I think the problem with the British Left is that the people who are meant to be its best and most fervent fighters waste their time on in-fighting, petty bullying and tearing down anyone who puts their head above the parapet. I think the problem with the British Left is that too many of us would rather attack each other and turn our energy outwards. I think the problem with the British Left is that it's riddled with bitterness and barely acknowledged misogyny. And I think that this thread is the perfect example of all of those things.

Us told again. This is weak tea, fucking weak tea.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This place is worse than most demos in terms of bruises, punches, betrayals and sleepless nights in filthy cells.

Such melodrama!

 

[Belushi]

I said 'part of the problem'

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I said 'part of the problem'

typical sub eh?

 

[butchersapron]

Laurie, welcome to Urban, Ignore Butchers and Dwyer, have a hob nob, are you firky etc....

Just a caveat please don't think that just because some people are talking about you at length, that you are somewhat important or relevant. There are people on these boards who can hold grudges for periods of time that could only be measured on a geological scale. I mean christ look at the thread title, the OP is about a handbag fight between you, Alex and the SWP, to be any less politically relevant you may as well talk about the SDP.

Not that I'm necessarily on your side or anything Laurie, it's just like watching chum getting thrown into the sharks.

You used my dying cat to attack me. You're cool.

 

[framed]

I understand that, and thank you for acknowledging. It's kind of funny that you think I'm the 'problem with the British left'.

Personally, though, I think the problem with the British Left is that the people who are meant to be its best and most fervent fighters waste their time on in-fighting, petty bullying and tearing down anyone who puts their head above the parapet. I think the problem with the British Left is that too many of us would rather attack each other and turn our energy outwards. I think the problem with the British Left is that it's riddled with bitterness and barely acknowledged misogyny. And I think that this thread is the perfect example of all of those things.

 

[free spirit]

I understand that, and thank you for acknowledging. It's kind of funny that you think I'm the 'problem with the British left'.

Personally, though, I think the problem with the British Left is that the people who are meant to be its best and most fervent fighters waste their time on in-fighting, petty bullying and tearing down anyone who puts their head above the parapet. I think the problem with the British Left is that too many of us would rather attack each other and turn our energy outwards. I think the problem with the British Left is that it's riddled with bitterness and barely acknowledged misogyny. And I think that this thread is the perfect example of all of those things.

you'd best go and have a word with your slightly younger self then, as it started with your attacks on the SWP and their response to it.*

Of course, the old left is not about to disappear completely. It is highly likely that even after a nuclear attack, the only remaining life-forms will be cockroaches and sour-faced vendors of the Socialist Worker. Stunningly, the paper is still being peddled at every demonstration to young cyber-activists for whom the very concept of a newspaper is almost as outdated as the notion of ideological unity as a basis for action.

For these young protesters, the strategic factionalism of the old left is irrelevant.

*not that many on here haven't said the same thing about the SWP

 

[Delroy Booth]

This use of the word "in-fighting" is what gets my back up. Coz it implies we're on "in" the same group or on the same team. I really don't see it that way.

 

[butchersapron]

This use of the word "in-fighting" is what gets my back up. Coz it implies we're on "in" the same group or on the same team. I really don't see it that way.

Who used it?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I do have a couple of questions, actually, if anyone can answer them for me:

1.What are you actually hoping to achieve with this thread?

What does anyone hope to achieve when they write and read? To inform and to be informed; to tease; to shame; to support, the same as with any thread.

2. If you really do hate my work and everything it stands for, why have you spent 215 pages discussing it, and why do you continue to hang around on my twitter feed and read my articles?

It's hardly a case of hating your work and everything it stands for, it's far more a case that some of your work, and some of those you work for, is at odds with the person you claim to be, hence the many comments on this thread on just such issues.

 

[alfajobrob]

The normal way. I applied, and then I had an interview.

I believe he was asking what had happened before you got the job/applied...did you have connections within the paper, or just get it on your own merit

 

[Delroy Booth]

Who used it?

Personally, though, I think the problem with the British Left is that the people who are meant to be its best and most fervent fighters waste their time on in-fighting, petty bullying and tearing down anyone who puts their head above the parapet.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Who used it?

Laura

 

[Delroy Booth]

Who used it?

It's also one of the things James "why don't the left like the police" Ball said, quoted earlier on in the thread.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So VP does that mean that come the revolution you will give Laurie Penny a fair trial before shooting her?

Criminal justice systems and fair trials are bourgeois affectations, comrade!

 

[Firky]

Careful now, violent misogynist fantasies.

 

[butchersapron]

Laura

Worthless then.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Communism isn't about being nice. Communism is a hammer which we use to smash the enemy.

 

[lauriepenny]

I believe he was asking what had happened before you got the job/applied...did you have connections within the paper, or just get it on your own merit

Just on my own merit, oddly enough. I've never had any personal or family connections at any paper or magazine I've worked at.