Al Qaeda a myth says Russian

[ill-informed]

thanks for that. no i didn't see it on the news last night, although i did watch the news. I was just commenting on bigfishes point about the computer simulation link being extremely different to the video, and if that's what they've based their research on then.....

 

[nino_savatte]

I agree, but what we need to remember is that the british public allowed it to happen. In effect we gave blair permission to keep his tongue firmy rooted up bush's alimentary...

While the figure of two million demonstrators is admirable, and kudos to them all, that still left over 50 million who did nothing.

So what are you saying? That those of us who went on the march have to share in the blame with those who didn't?

Why on earth should I be culpable? I didn't give Blair permission to do anything. Perhaps you've noticed his leadership style...then again, maybe not.

 

[editor]

thanks for that. no i didn't see it on the news last night, although i did watch the news. I was just commenting on bigfishes point about the computer simulation link being extremely different to the video....

Why do you believe him when he makes the claim that they supposedly don't match up?

And if so, why do you think the 200 experts failed to notice this easy-to-spot discrepancy over the course of the two and half year study, documented in a 10,000 page report? Or do you think that all of them are 'in' on the conspiracy too?

And seeing as 3,400 pages of the report has been made public, why do you think no other suitably qualified independent experts on the planet have noticed something that is apparently so obvious that unqualified home page authors can see it?

 

[slaar]

Bigfish, for that argument to have even a shred of plausibility you'd have to show us stills of the moment the jet hit the building, along with where it hit, and where the fuel fireball went; we've no idea in those photos how close the jet is to the building or how fast it''s turning.

 

[ill-informed]

oh dear, is this turning into another 911 argument. I didn't say i've taken bg's word for anything, just that looking at the 2 things myself .... and i doubt very much that 100's of people are in on a conspiracy, but maybe they've simplified or altered the model to fit with the conclusion, and i'm also not trying to say that the rest of the report is wrong, because i havent seen it, and why hasn't anyone else piped up and said, hang on a sec, well i don't know, collective brainwashing? an inept media? fear of being labelled a conspiraloon?

phew, wish i'd kept quiet now....

 

[editor]

oh dear, is this turning into another 911 argument. I didn't say i've taken bg's word for anything, just that looking at the 2 things myself .... and i doubt very much that 100's of people are in on a conspiracy, but maybe they've simplified or altered the model to fit with the conclusion, and i'm also not trying to say that the rest of the report is wrong, because i havent seen it, and why hasn't anyone else piped up and said, hang on a sec, well i don't know, collective brainwashing? an inept media? fear of being labelled a conspiraloon?
.

If I was hired to work on a report within my areas of expertise and a colleague tried to "simplify or alter the model to fit with the conclusion", I'd tell them to fuck right off because my professional integrity would depend on it.

In fact, I'd ask - loudly - what the fuck they were playing at and ask for them to get kicked off the project if they continued such slapdash behaviour.

Wouldn't you do the same?

 

[ill-informed]

I guess i would, but models are only simplifications anyway.

 

[fela fan]

So what are you saying? That those of us who went on the march have to share in the blame with those who didn't?

Why on earth should I be culpable? I didn't give Blair permission to do anything. Perhaps you've noticed his leadership style...then again, maybe not.

No, i wasn't saying that nino. Perhaps i worded things not quite fully. I recall feeling fantastic when seeing the huge numbers on that demonstration, and like i said, great kudos to those that made it. Very much so.

But when it comes to britain, to the british public as a whole, then yes, we must share blame. Not individuals, the mass sum of the individuals through which a nation's culture and society is described.

So you personally are anything but culpable. But you, or me, as a british person must share in the blame of what our leaders do in the name of britain.

After all, citizens in other countries won't know you from adam. But they will know what our country does.

 

[fela fan]

ad hominem and argument-from-authority: you haven't adressed what he has said.

That would be pushing things too far. When it comes to this topic on urban, it's not addressed by certain quarters, only the posters are discussed.

Your observation is spot on.

 

[fela fan]

If I was hired to work on a report within my areas of expertise and a colleague tried to "simplify or alter the model to fit with the conclusion", I'd tell them to fuck right off because my professional integrity would depend on it.

In fact, I'd ask - loudly - what the fuck they were playing at and ask for them to get kicked off the project if they continued such slapdash behaviour.

Wouldn't you do the same?

Heh, you're having a laugh editor? I think what you should have said is that everyone would like to do the same.

But the bit you've glaringly missed out is it depends on the context. Not describing any one context in particular, but if the person you were going to tell to 'fuck right off' could then dispense with your life, or give you a big beating, then would your professional inegrity matter quite so much??

If (and we all know your views, so this is in the realms of hypotheticals) 911 had been perpetrated by elements of the US elite, and you were ready to provide proof to the media, do you reckon your life would be perfectly safe?

 

[editor]

That would be pushing things too far. When it comes to this topic on urban, it's not addressed by certain quarters, only the posters are discussed.

I'm discussing a two and a half year, 10,000 page report created by 200 experts, that utterly rubbishes bigfish's bonkers arguments about 9/11.

Do I see any damning evidence from bigfish that calls into question the credibility of the report, the competency of its authors or any counter-testimony from suitably qualified, independent experts?

Like fuck. It's just the same tired, discredited old shite from brainwashed conspiraloons and bedroom 'investigators'.

 

[fela fan]

phew, wish i'd kept quiet now....

Why? We need more of you, questioning things instead of instantly writing posts off if the 'wrong' poster has posted it.

In fact, what's pertinent is that the biggest event of our generation, by some fucking country mile, is simply ignored by our mass-media. So much that doesn't fit, yet not a single investigative reporter from the US or UK on the case. Maybe anywhere else, but i don't speak any european languages.

Don't keep quiet mate, just keep questioning. If a person has got something wrong, fine, and the fastest way to finding out is by questioning them.

 

[fela fan]

I'm discussing a two and a half year, 10,000 page report created by 200 experts, that utterly rubbishes bigfish's bonkers arguments about 9/11.

Wait a minute, how many of those 10,000 pages have you read? Coz by claiming so emphatically that this report rubbishes what bigfish has to say, the forum must conclude that you've read the whole thing.

 

[editor]

But the bit you've glaringly missed out is it depends on the context. Not describing any one context in particular, but if the person you were going to tell to 'fuck right off' could then dispense with your life, or give you a big beating, then would your professional inegrity matter quite so much??

So all the 200 experts and every single person involved in this report were all lying as part of a big conspiracy because they feared for their lives?

And your evidence for this is....?

 

[editor]

Wait a minute, how many of those 10,000 pages have you read? Coz by claiming so emphatically that this report rubbishes what bigfish has to say, the forum must conclude that you've read the whole thing.

I've read summaries from people who have read them. And there's not a fruitloop holographic missile in site.

 

[almeria]

I often work on management projects where I have to analyse a business segment and write a detailed report. Increasingly I've noticed that part of the brief includes the conclusions that the report should arrive at. In other words, we're paying you to justify this trajectory, and if you won't do it, we'll get someone else.

Do I tell them to fuck off? Sometimes. More often I just double my fee and give them what they want.

 

[cynical_bastard]

I've read summaries from people who have read them. And there's not a fruitloop holographic missile in site.

To be fair, tho, the missile was invisible. Hardly surprising they missed it.

 

[editor]

Why? We need more of you, questioning things instead of instantly writing posts off if the 'wrong' poster has posted it.

In fact, what's pertinent is that the biggest event of our generation, by some fucking country mile, is simply ignored by our mass-media. So much that doesn't fit, yet not a single investigative reporter from the US or UK on the case. Maybe anywhere else, but i don't speak any european languages.

Don't keep quiet mate, just keep questioning. If a person has got something wrong, fine, and the fastest way to finding out is by questioning them.

So have all the investigative reporters in the US and the UK been silenced as part of this globe spanning conspiracy involving thousands - if not tens or hundreds of thousands - of people all fearful of revealing the truth?

And your evidence for this would be....?

 

[editor]

Do I tell them to fuck off? Sometimes. More often I just double my fee and give them what they want.

Then you'd kiss goodbye to your career if you were tasked with writing a report that was later exposed to be bullshit. And rightly so.

 

[editor]

To be fair, tho, the missile was invisible. Hardly surprising they missed it.

Damn those clever Yankees with their invisible missiles and disappearing planes!

 

[nino_savatte]

No, i wasn't saying that nino. Perhaps i worded things not quite fully. I recall feeling fantastic when seeing the huge numbers on that demonstration, and like i said, great kudos to those that made it. Very much so.

But when it comes to britain, to the british public as a whole, then yes, we must share blame. Not individuals, the mass sum of the individuals through which a nation's culture and society is described.

So you personally are anything but culpable. But you, or me, as a british person must share in the blame of what our leaders do in the name of britain.

After all, citizens in other countries won't know you from adam. But they will know what our country does.

You say "the British people as whole must share the blame" when you have contradicted yourself in the preceding paragraph.

I accept the blame for nothing. It is the leadership and those who support them that must shoulder the blame and no one else.

 

[editor]

You say "the British people as whole must share the blame" when you have contradicted yourself in the preceding paragraph.

I accept the blame for nothing. It is the leadership and those who support them that must shoulder the blame and no one else.

I wonder if fela "shares the blame" for the human rights abuses in Thailand?

 

[nino_savatte]

I wonder if fela "shares the blame" for the human rights abuses in Thailand?

I seriously doubt it but let's ask him.

 

[fela fan]

So all the 200 experts and every single person involved in this report were all lying as part of a big conspiracy because they feared for their lives?

And your evidence for this is....?

As usual you have taken your normal route in debating: someone says something is not white, and you immediately read that they have said it is black. It's very poor debating form indeed mate.

You ask me for my evidence for something that i've not even claimed, nor even hinted at. Bloody amazing man! You ask me for evidence for something that you claim, it's just amazing!

 

[fela fan]

So have all the investigative reporters in the US and the UK been silenced as part of this globe spanning conspiracy involving thousands - if not tens or hundreds of thousands - of people all fearful of revealing the truth?

And your evidence for this would be....?

You're like a stuck record over 'evidence', especially for claims that you make, not claims that i make. Why should i provide you with evidence for your own claims, and for something i never said?

Get this: I NEVER SAID THAT, YOU SAID IT, NOT ME.

What i said was quite simple: there is no investigative reporting going on in US or UK media.

I never went on to surmise why this may be so.

 

[editor]

You ask me for my evidence for something that i've not even claimed, nor even hinted at. Bloody amazing man! You ask me for evidence for something that you claim, it's just amazing!

Don't bullshit me. Your implication is clear.

But I'll let you spell it out. Why do you think it is "not a single investigative reporter from the US or UK" has taken up the 9/11 conspiracy yarns?

Why did you mention "beatings" when asked about the integrity of the WTC report?

Do you have any evidence at all that there is anything untoward about the report?

 

[fela fan]

You say "the British people as whole must share the blame" when you have contradicted yourself in the preceding paragraph.

I accept the blame for nothing. It is the leadership and those who support them that must shoulder the blame and no one else.

I did not contradict myself. I was differentiating between the individual and the general public that constitutes a nation.

You might not accept any blame, but plenty in the world will blame you. Coz you are british in their eyes, not nino.

 

[nino_savatte]

You're like a stuck record over 'evidence', especially for claims that you make, not claims that i make. Why should i provide you with evidence for your own claims, and for something i never said?

Get this: I NEVER SAID THAT, YOU SAID IT, NOT ME.

What i said was quite simple: there is no investigative reporting going on in US or UK media.

I never went on to surmise why this may be so.

That isn't true, there are investigative journalists working in the 'field'. Ever heard of Greg Palast?

 

[fela fan]

I wonder if fela "shares the blame" for the human rights abuses in Thailand?

Of course i fucking don't, i'm not thai. If, as i'd very much like to, i spoke out about them, then i'd either be shot dead or put on a plane straight back to britain.

Both of those options are equally unattractive...

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Of course i fucking don't, i'm not thai. If, as i'd very much like to, i spoke out about them, then i'd either be shot dead or put on a plane straight back to britain.

Both of those options are equally unattractive...

That's convenient. So you don't take responsibility for anything.