9/11 media happenings

[8den]

And you've obviously got reading problems. I said i've yet to talk to an experienced pilot.

The gentleman gives his credentials and even proof of his identity in that pdf.

I'm not going to take anything on the net at face value, nor in the papers, nor anywhere, and certainly not on the propaganda tube, unless it's proven science.

Like i've just replied to kyser, i've seen too much reported at odds with my own experiences in life, and i only completely trust my own eyes, or science.

How many scientists do the conspiracy theorists have?

 

[fela fan]

The gentleman gives his credentials and even proof of his identity in that pdf.



How many scientists do the conspiracy theorists have?

Look den, everybody has their own beleivability meter, and yours is clearly less stringent than mine. No problem.

But since i've seen so much crap, so many lies, so much propaganda in all, ALL, media outlets in my time on this planet, i take most of what i read with not a lot of salt.

I say again, i want to speak to pilots myself, not read about them.

 

[8den]

Look den, everybody has their own beleivability meter, and yours is clearly less stringent than mine. No problem.

Other way around mate.

But since i've seen so much crap, so many lies, so much propaganda in all, ALL, media outlets in my time on this planet, i take most of what i read with not a lot of salt.

I say again, i want to speak to pilots myself, not read about them.

Whatcha waiting for? Head down to the bar at the local airport and start asking questions instead of posting speculative bollocks on the internet.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Have you not learnt the difference between WTCs 1,2 and 7 yet?

fool!

PMSL Yet again you manage to destroy your own argument...

So, which one was it - WTC 7 that was a CD, or 1 & 2?

You really are a complete idiot

 

[fela fan]

Other way around mate.



Whatcha waiting for? Head down to the bar at the local airport and start asking questions instead of posting speculative bollocks on the internet.

Examples please mate, coz you're out of your depth there. It's patently obvious you've just accepted this bit of internet news as being the truth. I haven't. I've never met the man, and i have no idea of any agenda behind the story.

Head down to the local airport bar??! That's a good joke man! You mean i'm going to find pilots in the bar? Would that be before they start work or just after they've stepped off the plane?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Oh, and still waiting for your opinions on that report. "light in substance" I seem to recall, so surely it won't take you that long?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I say again, i want to speak to pilots myself

In that case, come have a chat with the guy who lives next door to my parents. He flew Tornados with the RAF for years, and now flies passenger long haul.

Very early on in all this there were reports being banded around by CTers quoting US pilots as "it was an impossible turn" etc etc

His response?

"If a US fighter pilot reckons he couldn't make the turn he shouldn't be in the air, it's a piece of piss"

Oh, and he also reckoned he and few collegues all had a go at recreating it in a simulator, and every single one of them did it first time.

 

[8den]

Examples please mate, coz you're out of your depth there. It's patently obvious you've just accepted this bit of internet news as being the truth. I haven't. I've never met the man, and i have no idea of any agenda behind the story.

Examples of what?

Head down to the local airport bar??! That's a good joke man! You mean i'm going to find pilots in the bar? Would that be before they start work or just after they've stepped off the plane?

I was taking the piss. But seriously fuck off find a pilot, ask em, and shut up wittering about shit you know nothing about.

 

[fela fan]

Examples of what?



I was taking the piss. But seriously fuck off find a pilot, ask em, and shut up wittering about shit you know nothing about.

Examples of me believing what i read more than you.

And you're command for me what to do: is that the level of debate you lower yourself to? You must be pretty young, so no worries. Pretty poor form mind.

 

[8den]

Examples of me believing what i read more than you.

Buying into bullshit conspiracy theories you read on the internet perhaps?

And you're command for me what to do: is that the level of debate you lower yourself to? You must be pretty young, so no worries. Pretty poor form mind.

Irony they name is fela fan, complaining about me lowering the level of debate while delivering an ad homien. You had the moral highground for about 2seconds, then you got allitude sickness.

 

[fela fan]

In that case, come have a chat with the guy who lives next door to my parents. He flew Tornados with the RAF for years, and now flies passenger long haul.

Very early on in all this there were reports being banded around by CTers quoting US pilots as "it was an impossible turn" etc etc

His response?

"If a US fighter pilot reckons he couldn't make the turn he shouldn't be in the air, it's a piece of piss"

Oh, and he also reckoned he and few collegues all had a go at recreating it in a simulator, and every single one of them did it first time.

Y'see bees, this is why i prefer to trust my own experience. That doesn't answer my questions at all. These hijackers can hardly be compared to US fighter pilots!!

My question to an experienced pilot would be something like: "do you think someone who's just completed his ppl, and who's practised using jets on simulators, could carry out the manoeuvres that the planes did in crashing into the two trade centres, and the pentagon?"

Oh, and i could add that these hijackers had also done some last minute revision on how to fly the jets...

 

[fela fan]

Buying into bullshit conspiracy theories you read on the internet perhaps?

And is this what you think i do den? You'd be most mistaken if you did think this.

I have just explained i have trouble in believing anything from the majority of what constitutes media. You're not keeping up very well dear boy!

I said you were probably young, because normally older people don't tend to tell someone to fuck off, nor do they accuse them groundlessly of not knowing shit about what they talk about.

Politeness costs nothing.

 

[8den]

And is this what you think i do den? You'd be most mistaken if you did think this.

I have just explained i have trouble in believing anything from the majority of what constitutes media. You're not keeping up very well dear boy!

So tell me where do you draw your facts from? Why don't you believe the offical story?

I said you were probably young, because normally older people don't tend to tell someone to fuck off, nor do they accuse them groundlessly of not knowing shit about what they talk about.

Politeness costs nothing.

You clearly don't know what you are on about because you've admitted you don't know anything about planes.

 

[MikeMcc]

My link is not contentious at all, it's him and the recording is out there.

Your quote (on google cache!) was just plain hearsay.

Likewise a voice recording from an unidentified source, if it was a video interview I'd be more prepared to believe it. Why was he speaking dutch in the two video clips and excellent english in the 'interview'?

 

[fela fan]

So tell me where do you draw your facts from? Why don't you believe the offical story?





You clearly don't know what you are on about because you've admitted you don't know anything about planes.

I've admitted i know nothing about planes have i now?? It's a laugh man. I've fucking flown the bastards, the wee small ones that is. You keep on arriving at misguided conclusions.

I don't draw my facts from anywhere. There are none to be drawn. You mean to say you have some facts? There you go again, believing too much mate.

I don't believe the official story for one moment. A couple of hours spent on reading up on the reams of intelligence forewarning relevant authorities in the US that was simply ignored, is enough to being the doubts. Either through staggering incompetence that is scarcely credible from the world's greatest superpower, the world's biggest ever empire, or coz they wanted to ignore the intelligence.

Plus a healthy appreciation that you don't find the truth listening to politicians, and the fact that to retain power and advance it, one has to act illegally.

Oh, history is littered with acts of agent provocateur.

I could go on, but i hope that's enough for now.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

My question to an experienced pilot would be something like: "do you think someone who's just completed his ppl, and who's practised using jets on simulators, could carry out the manoeuvres that the planes did in crashing into the two trade centres, and the pentagon?"

If you can do it on a simulator, you can do it for real, basically.

The bit in the air is reletively simple, it's takeoff and landing* where most of the skill is.






*well a safe one anyway, any idiot can make a plane hit the ground

 

[8den]

I don't believe the official story for one moment. A couple of hours spent on reading up on the reams of intelligence forewarning relevant authorities in the US that was simply ignored, is enough to being the doubts. Either through staggering incompetence that is scarcely credible from the world's greatest superpower, the world's biggest ever empire, or coz they wanted to ignore the intelligence.

Plus a healthy appreciation that you don't find the truth listening to politicians, and the fact that to retain power and advance it, one has to act illegally.

So you take everything you read with a grain of salt unless it fits into your preconcieved worldview, and then you shovel it down and ask for seconds...

Oh, history is littered with acts of agent provocateur.

Like.......

I could go on, but i hope that's enough for now.

I don't think you've posted anything credible.

 

[editor]

Freedom of speech? Freedom to speak or not speak, freedom to listen or not listen. Or don't they do that round this way any more?

Jazzz clearly doesn't do politeness. Or arguments. But if you're suggesting he should be allowed to shunt up his wild claims without being challenged, then you're very much mistaken.

You see, that's what thorough debate is all about. And if someone is pompously declaring himself to be a "truth seeker", then I find his reticence to actually tell the truth when asked rather hypocritical.

I want to know if this Ryan guy has any relevant qualifications because Jazzz clearly holds his opinion in high regard. If iy turns out he's another unqualified conspiraloon eejit, then that reflects rather badly on Jazzz and shows that's he's not interested in 'the truth' at all. He just wants to hear people agree with him and he's not bothered who they are.

But thanks for your contribution. It was as useless and as off-topic as ever.

 

[fela fan]

If you can do it on a simulator, you can do it for real, basically.

The bit in the air is reletively simple, it's takeoff and landing* where most of the skill is.






*well a safe one anyway, any idiot can make a plane hit the ground

bees, i don't mean to be a bore, but can you let me know how this is so? I mean that if you can do it on the simulator you can do it for real. That would be another question i'd have for a pilot. Coz i find it hard to believe that a man who had just done his ppl could then fly a big fuck-off jet! I certainly couldn't, and i'd be shitted at the prospect of doing so. Never mind flying the thing so expertly.

And if the landing is difficult, then surely that would include 'landing' it into a tower, or even more so, a low building?

 

[8den]

And if the landing is difficult, then surely that would include 'landing' it into a tower, or even more so, a low building?

Head in hands. Crashing isn't landing.

 

[fela fan]

Head in hands. Crashing isn't landing.

A clear cut example of your reading inabilities.

landing in 'inverted commas' is also not landing.

 

[8den]

A clear cut example of your reading inabilities.

landing in 'inverted commas' is also not landing.

God, it's like being faced with a black hole of stupid.

Theres a world of difference between bringing a plane down safetly with a 2 or 3 point landing, and ramming it into the side of a building.

So your claim;

And if the landing is difficult, then surely that would include 'landing' it into a tower, or even more so, a low building?

That crashing is harder than landing is patent bollocks.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

bees, i don't mean to be a bore, but can you let me know how this is so? I mean that if you can do it on the simulator you can do it for real.

Obviously it depends on how many hours you've had in a simulator, but yeah, if you can do it in a sim you can do it for real according to the guy I know. There is no difference, that's how good the modern sims are.

He reckons this is how he knows that in theory you could do a loop the loop in a 747

 

[editor]

And if the landing is difficult, then surely that would include 'landing' it into a tower, or even more so, a low building?

What do you think's easier in a car: reversing into a tight parking space or just ramming into the nearest shop window?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

What do you think's easier in a car: reversing into a tight parking space or just ramming into the nearest shop window?

Is the shop real, or just a hologram?

 

[fela fan]

What do you think's easier in a car: reversing into a tight parking space or just ramming into the nearest shop window?

I dunno, what do you reckon mate?

I fail to see how your analogy has any decent comparison in it really.

 

[fela fan]

Obviously it depends on how many hours you've had in a simulator, but yeah, if you can do it in a sim you can do it for real according to the guy I know. There is no difference, that's how good the modern sims are.

He reckons this is how he knows that in theory you could do a loop the loop in a 747

That last comment tends to chip away at his credibility i'm afraid bees. I'm sorry, i cannot see that happening without the plane breaking up.

But anyhow, fair enough, simulator training could be enough. But firstly, it's still a simulator, and the real thing needs to factor in other things apart from just the technical ability.

And secondly the flight schools these hijackers went to have been on record saying how awful some of them were in their training.

I'd definitely like to see a pilot myself, the questions keep on coming!

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

That last comment tends to chip away at his credibility i'm afraid bees. I'm sorry, i cannot see that happening without the plane breaking up.

I was skeptical, but apparently although you are right on the limit it is possible.

it's still a simulator, and the real thing needs to factor in other things apart from just the technical ability

You're missing the point - as it was explained to me, a modern simulator is exactly the same as the real thing. Any factors you care to chuck in - bad weather, poor visability, failure of components etc can be replicated. If you can do it in the sim, you can do it in the real thing.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

And secondly the flight schools these hijackers went to have been on record saying how awful some of them were in their training

IIRC this is actually conspiraloon misquoting/bullshit. Sure someone here will have links.

 

[fela fan]

IIRC this is actually conspiraloon misquoting/bullshit. Sure someone here will have links.

No, you've recalled incorrectly mate. Just go to the cooperativeresearch.org site i often quote. The flight schools got in touch with local CIA agents to warn them.

Their superiors seemed unworried about it. Intelligence fatigue i guess...